CC with Farsight - BS? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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    CC with Farsight - BS?

    Farsight's troops are described as trained heavily in CC, especially against orks, and apparently as a result of this training, they are -exactly the same- as any other Tau forces, except against orks. Is there actually any overall benefit to using Farsight against any non-ork army? One that outweighs the strict army limitations of using Farsight? Many Bonding knives are pretty cool, i guess, but they are essentially one of the only benefits for spending 95 extra points, and crippling your army selection. I just assumed warriors trained heavily in close combat would be, oh, I don't know, slightly more effective than those that abhor it.

    Oh, and the 'BS?' doesn't refer to Ballistic Skill. It refers to the other BS.

    Last edited by Kyoufuu; September 9th, 2010 at 10:03.

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    Member Blood Seriph's Avatar
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    Benefits of using Farsight against a NON ork army:
    *Free Bonding Knife
    * Additional Crisis Suits:
    Normal: you can have only 15 total XV8 suits(3x3 elites, 2HQ's w/2 bodyguards each)
    Farsight: you get 20suits(3x3 elites, 1HQ w/2 bodyguards, and Farsight w/7 bodyguards)

    Yeah not that many good things huh...

    Summery:
    don't use him.

    Special Note: don't even think of approaching the other special Character's, they're even worse. The only exception is R'alai, but he's just experimental on the forge world site so he doesn't really count...
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    I wasn't using him, I haven't got anything apart from the Codex yet (one of the downsides of being a uni student - poor.) I was just wondering, why does it go on about them training extensively in CC, multiple times, if they are, stat-wise, just as bad as normal Tau against anything that isn't an ork.

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    I wasn't chastising you for using any of them, sorry if it seemed as such.

    I was just trying to answer the question, and quash any thoughts of validating the other special character's as maybe being useful, which they are not.

    As to your core question; read more on him and it implies that orks are the only race they practice such CC tactics on(hence the preferred enemy special rule), due to where they set up shop. Look on the map in the codex, it's in an area that boarders an Ork controlled system.

    The sad thing I see personally is that farsight is actually trying to keep the orks out of Tau space, martyring himself and his army to do so. Whats worse the empire and shadowsun especially doesn't seem to see that, or want to acknowledge it.

    We are a tiny bit of fluff away from Farsight being really good,.

    Stupid breakaway faction rule...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blood Seriph View Post
    As to your core question; read more on him and it implies that orks are the only race they practice such CC tactics on(hence the preferred enemy special rule), due to where they set up shop. Look on the map in the codex, it's in an area that boarders an Ork controlled system.
    ... because the Farsight Enclaves, like any other good military force, use actual battles as basic combat training? I don't see it.

    The Codex says "Fire caste warriors of the Farsight Enclaves train heavily in hand-to-hand combat" bla bla good versus Orks. I'd assume that training heavily in hand-to-hand combat would make you better at, oh, I don't know, hitting something in hand-to-hand combat. And since they would logically train against dummies or each other, if they are only good in CC against orks, don't you think they'd notice that they don't seem to be getting any better at all? If they did seem to be getting better, why are they still as useless vs other Tau, which they train on more than they train on orks? Why do their reflexes (initiative) not improve at all, no matter who they fight? How does GW overlook such massive continuity gaps?

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    The codex fluff also says that Fire Caste soldiers are kick-ass combatants ... who typically have WS 2 and Init 2 as well.

    Uh-huh.

    Not that I have any problem with those stats. But some of the Tau codex fluff is just ... atrociously silly. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, and Tau suck rocks in close combat. Doesn't matter what the fluff says, I don't care how many Crisis Suits you field, I don't care whether the entire Tau army gets Preferred Enemy, nothing changes the fact that Tau are the worst assault force in all of 40K.

    There is nothing about Farsight that changes this reality.
    ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
    RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Cooper View Post
    Why do their reflexes (initiative) not improve at all, no matter who they fight? How does GW overlook such massive continuity gaps?
    They do - I have no doubt that such a heavily trained tau warrior would beat a regular tau warrior hand to hand, in fluff at least.

    But in the game each value represents a vast range of capability - WS3 for instance covers everything from your nameless IG grunt who slows the enemy by forcing his opponent to step over his corpse, all the way up and beyond the double hard, cybernetically enhanced yes sir! kill them now sir! Kasrkin and other elite units.

    Likewise WS2 and I2 basically covers the entire range of tau fire warriors from the new guys right up to the ethereal's elite squad of hardened bodyguards.

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    So basically, CC with Farsight -is- BS. Thanks.

    Why the hell did GW give us a pile of s**t and call it a delicious pie?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Cooper View Post
    So basically, CC with Farsight -is- BS. Thanks.

    Why the hell did GW give us a pile of s**t and call it a delicious pie?
    Yes, and thats why we use railguns.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Cooper View Post
    So basically, CC with Farsight -is- BS. Thanks.

    Why the hell did GW give us a pile of s**t and call it a delicious pie?
    A little moderation, Good Sir!

    No matter what GW itself says, 40K is a game first and foremost. A game with a very rich and delicious background, which is why many people are attracted to it, but a game nonetheless. And to be any fun, any game needs to allow for variety. One of major ways that 40K creates variety is by having over a dozen factions with varying degrees of ability in various aspects of game play.

    Makes sense, right?

    Well, it also doesn't make any sense at all for the game background to say outright, "on the game table, Orks kick the crap out of Tau armies in the assault phase, DUH!" Frankly, the fluff background for both armies is more interesting because they wrote up a very cool bit of history between them. That makes actual games between Ork players and Tau players a bit of extra fun. It's a "fluffy" battle.

    However, those games wouldn't be any fun if the game rules slavishly followed the fluff. What you are essentially asking for is that when playing Orks, Tau are the Rock and Orks are the Scissors, game over. Would that actually be fun for anybody involved? Remember, it's a game and it needs to be fair and balanced or it falls apart and nobody will play.

    So enjoy the fluff and incorporate it into your army and your enjoyment of your games ... but never mistake fluff for the game rules. They influence each other, but that's the end of it. The rules don't dictate the fluff and the fluff doesn't dictate the rules, either. 40K would be unplayable if it did. You'd have somebody putting 10 space marines on the table and they would beat everybody except another space marine player.
    ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
    RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014

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