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With 5th edition's shooting and cover updates, I've been having some random thoughts on using this to eldar's advantage.
This train of thought mainly involves pathfinders. Lots and lots of path finders.
The army would be fairly static troops choices (for the most part) but with the standard mech FD etc etc
Not really thinking very competitive, more just a "hey wouldn't this be pretty cool?" idea
Screening the pathfinders with a squad of guardians with a warlock including conceal, giving them the 5+ cover save and fortuning them with your standard seer, they become a little harder to kill. But the beauty of the idea isn't the guardians, its the pathfinders. With a ring of guardians and the pathfinders inside 9was thinking 2 guardian squads and 4 pathfinder squads) the pathfinders would receive a mighty 2+ cover save! Out in the open! And with their 36" range causing pinning and such, massed ld tests will ensue. Mix this up with some night spinners and what do you have? any enemy unit on foot is likely to be crawling at this point, with return fire aimed at your cheap fortuned guardians or your 2+ save pathfinders. templates would worry you, if they got close enough. If you positioned them correctly, the only thing you'd be worrying about would be drop pods and, if positioned correctly, they'd still be force scattered outside the screen, meaning they'd still have to go through the guardians and you'd still get the save!
The only problem would be heavy mech, which is where the 3 fire dragon WS's come in, hunting down the heavier threats while the WS's take out transports etc etc
It's only a shell of an idea, but i think it has some promise if i do say so myself.
If not... well it could still be a very fun list to play
Thoughts and comments on how it could be improved would be appreciated
Generally you'd screen snipers in the open using harlequins who have veil of tears, but if you're taking a large station ary block of pathfinders that'd be too many points for the harlies.
The main downside of screening a large block is that you're firing thru your own troops so granting cover saves to your target, that means you lose all that ap1 ap2 goodness that the pathfinders provide, the opponent will get a 4+ cover regardless of the ap.
4 pathfinder squads = a max of 4 leadership checks per turn for your enemy. The snipers will struggle vs mech, nids are all fearless with synapse. orks are also fearless in large groups but will probably be meched up so again you're struggling. you don't say but from the list composition it's looking like a 2k point list and your fire dragons will simply be blown out of the sky at that points value. 3 wave serpents cant take 2k worth of shooting from a half way respectable army. you've already pointed out the problem of droppods.. dreads with heavy flamers, sternguard with cover ignoring shots.. both pretty painful and doom of manantai can potentially kill all 6 units of troops you have in one go.
sorry i can't be more positive, but i'm not overly optimistic about your chances with this type of list.
And what are you going to do against flamers, assault units, drop pods, etc? These are reasons why its best to have counter-assault and denial unit (harlies) to screen then it is to use cannon fodder(Guardians). Also remember that many pathfinders cost alot when you could just as easily fit in fire dragons and wave serpent to take care of anything.
Yeah i know there are alot of problems with it. Thats why it was more of a "this is pretty cool" sort of thing in getting a 2+ cover out in the open. I never said it was going to be competitive or even viable
I was just looking to see if it could be improved to have a decent chance of drawing or winning a cas game, and seeing what we could do to increase the "coolness" factor
but eris and neg, thank you for your comments
As far as being competitive goes, I agree with what was said earlier, there are some definite problems.
However, I get what you're saying about an army that is fun to play, and I think it does have merit in that regard. I enjoy using Pathfinders myself. I take a unit or two every time I play. Infiltrating them into cover and using them to snipe at high-value infantry, while screaming prism blasts fly overhead and Wave Serpents speed towards the enemy, is where they show their mettle. I've usually found their real strength comes in a support role, so using them as the mainstay of your force leads to the problems faced before. I like the idea, a sizeable force of the most cunning sniper squads in the galaxy does have a certain allure...
I don't want to completely throw the idea under the buss, but even after it's clear that a ranger heavy list will be far from competitive.. how fun is it going to be to play really? the vast majority of your army is 100% static (if they move they can't shoot), so all you're really going to be doing each turn is throwing some dice. there's no movement to get angles on the enemy.. no use of terrain to give cover as you move up or use of your other units or even the enemies to get that cover/block sight.. there's no subtelty or judgement required.. it's just a stand and shoot list. i can't think of a less interesting type of list to play.
Sorry, its going to be bad and its not going to be fun because your going to be taking off all your models. 2+ cover is fun, until you get shot with every single gun on the board. And are forced to take 50 saves a turn. Pretty soon you are taking LD 8 tests.
If you want to use rangers/pathfinders build a decent hybrid list.
Eldar -APOC- 6500 Points
Chaos Daemons -Fate Crusher- 3500 Points
Grey knights - 1000 Points
I think what most people are missing is the pure annoyance it would cause for your opponent. Sure they aren't dealing huge damage, but they are out in plain sight, and causing pinning tests, and picking off a few expensive models.
If that causes your opponent to pay more attention to killing your pathfinde"3 frs and "you get shot with every single gun on the board" as Eric said, then that means that the rest of your army (I.e. the ire dragon WS's" etc) will be safe.
Last edited by Mike Rutch; October 12th, 2010 at 09:02. Reason: Double post
Lol definitely Mike, i totally agree