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I was wondering what would be better, A Lord w/ EML+BL sitting back sniping at tanks,
or 2 Wave Serpents with TL-BLs. Personally i thought Wave Serpents would be better,
As there are 2 targets instead of 1. They will be carrying Avengers and Banshees. So they might get shot down on the way, maybe even blowing of their BLs. Sooo what should i do?
I run an Alaitoc list at 1000 Points; with 2 pathfinders squads, avengers and banshees, and an farseer. 2 wave serpents armed with BLs. I might try to fit in a Night Spinner aswell, As it gave me good results against my friend whp plays orks ;P.
Any advice is welcome, I'm not looking for advice on just my list and what is smarter to do, just what kind of anti-tank you prefer (walkers? prisms? Fire Dragons?)
twin linked BLs are good, but 1 twin linked S10 AP1 shot is better from the Prism's! keep the Serpent's as are useful, but ur Anti-tank choice is the fire Prism!
What kind of anti armour. heavy or APC armour
AV11 and 10 is reliably killed by our cheap S6 weapons and S8 missile launchers
Heavy AV is dealed by dragons/melta autarch/lances or ignored.
And Singing spears/witchblades are laughing at both.
In general I find Wave Serpents with Lances to be too expensive. You're effectively paying 145 points for a single shot weapon. It has a pretty good chance of hitting, but then you need to roll a 5 or a 6 to get a pen and then a 5 or a 6 again in order to destroy your target. Not exactly playing favorable odds there. On the other hand the wave serpent doesn't take up any FOC slots so if you have a wave serpent and have enough points to give it a lance, by all means do it. I rarely find myself with points to spare though sadly.
Basically, here's what we have for anti-tank:
1) The aforementioned Wave Serpents. With EMLs they are less effective at anti-tank but are cheaper and are just as good at taking out armor 12 or less, so most transport vehicles.
2) Fire Dragons. A one-trick-pony. Will draw a lot of fire and if they make it to their target, they will likely die on your opponent's next turn, so make it mean something. Might be worth it to take 2 squads. Squads of 5, no exarch in a wave serpent with TL-Shuricannons and Spirit Stones. 190 points.
3) Wraithlords with Lance/EML. Only 10 points more than a lance serpent, and better at anti-tank, but require a baby sitter for wraithsight, and with no invul save and their size making it difficult to gain a coversave, they don't tend to last very long. Still, you know your opponent needs to fire at least 3 lascannons to kill it rather than just 1 to kill a vehicle. They can serve as good bullet-magnets and blocking units in cc, and if they ever get into cc with a vehicle, they will kill it (S10 + 2d6). Generally only useful in smaller games, which is a real shame cause the Wraithlord is easily one of my favorite models in 40k.
4) Seer Council. Most people run these on bikes. I don't cause that would require me to buy bikes (I am not spending 15 bucks for a jetbike). These squads can be cripplingly expensive, but I know a lot of people swear by them. Myself I don't like investing a large amount of points in one unit, but they are very, very tough with their 3+/4++ re-rollable save, and are effective against many different unit types. You get what you pay for.
5) Fire Prisms. Easy. Take 2 (or 3 if you're feeling a bit evil) of them with no upgrades, keep them nestled away in a corner of the battlefield, and watch things die. The only problem with them is that unlike wraithlords they can be stunned and shaken, which means they won't be firing, and can be taken out in one (somewhat lucky) shot. But if that happens, so what? You're only out 115 points, and who in their right mind is gonna shoot at a fire prism when there are banshees and fire dragons coming at them very very fast?
All the above options have their strengths and weaknesses (this isn't imperial guard which has the perfect solutions in the form of vendettas and chimeltavets). I usually run 2 prisms, a squad of dragons (soon to be 2 when I finally decide to suck it up and buy more Eldar stuff. I was so sure I had finished my army...), and give all my troop units' wave serpents missile launchers. Combined with my farseer hanging out with the banshees, this effectively means that each unit in my army has something that can (in theory) do damage to enemy vehicles. Since the Eldar army is all about synergy, the strengths of each unit needs to make up for the weaknesses of another, so it pays to take as many options as possible.
Hope that helps. Good Hunting!
The enemy's gate is down
Wraithguaud are also good at killing any vehicle and are a very tough unit to boot. However, they're horribly expensive as well both in cash and points. 330 points for 5 wraithgaurd, a warlock with conceal and a WS with Scatter lasers. However expensive they are, it's amazing when you go up to a Monolith and blow it up with wraithcannons xD
40k: Silver Angels of Our Martyred Lady 7/2/3 - Daemons of the Great Squiggle! 3/1/0
Fantasy: Windhost of Athel'Loren 2/0/0 - Daemons of Another Great Squiggle! 0/0/0
Warmahordes: Legion of Everblight (Absylonia)
To start off, BrightLances on Serpents are 45 points only, so there is no reason to not equip them with one for an extra 45 points. 5 of them and your on the points cost of 2 prisms. And those are naked ;P. I've also been thinking of those instead of taking dragons, because, as you stated before, they dont take up any slots, just your banshees/Avengers or whatever you want to put in them.
I might just get one Dragon squad, for taking down a LandRaider or something, since their only 190 points for a squad.
Wraithlords really fit in the armys fluff i think, because they just sit back and shoot anything that moves. On the other hand, Eldar's strength is it's manouvrebillity, so Serpents/FDs might still be better. With lords your practically ALWAYS hitting front armor, if you have 2 empty wave serpents, you can team up to kill one tank, like one goes to the right one goes to the left. With one you'll be hitting side/back armor if you do it properly. BL+EML Lords are just pure firepower and durabillity. And like you said before, they don't stun or anything, they just die or live. ;P
Agree with this one, I DONT have alot of money, well, I make 5 euros per hour... xD So working 3 hours for one model is just not worth. I can do better things with my money, so this is no option. (also i just started eldar and i still need my key units.. so yeah)
Prisms. I'll probably run two and a Night Spinner, but thats 1750+. There a good option I think, but an expensive one aswell.
Kaiser, which Craftworld do you use? If you made up your own fluff, on what units does your craftworld focus? I'm really curious, as im still not sure about alaitoc yet. =)
To all of you, thanks alot for posting, have played 1 game so far and know about almost every unit what it can do, so yeah, thanks!
I do Biel-Tan. Love the fluff, love the color scheme (though I modified mine slightly), and the different colors of the aspect shrines make for a very striking army on the table. Plus, Biel-Tan is mainly aspect warriors in wave serpents, which is our most competitive build, though I've been playing Biel-Tan since I was 13, so not a bandwagoner
Alaitoc is difficult to make lists for. Genreally you're only gonna have (or want to have) 1 or 2 pathfinder squads, so it can be tough to theme your army this way. Pathfinders can be effective, but it is also 120 points for 5 models putting out 5 shots a turn. The are the bane of monstrous creatures, but against most other targets their use is limited, so they work best in a support role, rather than the main backbone of your army. Or so I've found anyway, if pathfinders are working for you, by all means go nuts!
The issue with putting anti-tank weapons on wave serpents is mainly a question of how often you think you'll be shooting them. For example, you don't want expensive guns on banshee or dragon wave serpents, since those are squads you want moving fast. Dire Avengers or guardians can benefit from them since you aren't likely going to need to move them as fast, and they aren't going to draw as much fire. Adding lances to banshee or dragon serpents is just going to make your opponent shoot more bullets at them than can be considered healthy.
While its true that 230 points for 2 fire prisms is a lot for one shot, it's more about when you take it. THink of it this way, you are getting a tank that individually can be a serious threat to infantry (S5 pie plate) and light to medium vehicles and elite infantry (S9 small blast). In pairs they can handle heavy infantry (S6 pie plate) and armor 14 (S10 with AP1 small blast). So there's a lot of versatility in this tank. You also don't need to combine beams. It can get sort of situational, for example if you are offered the opportunity to blow up a land raider while its still in your opponent's deployment zone and strand his assault terminator sqad, that's a shot worth taking. Naturally Fire Dragons are the best choice for land raiders and the like, but trust me when I say your opponent is probably going to invest a lot of effort in making sure that the dragons don't get near him. This gives your prisms free reign. Plus the only things you're likely to see that outrange them are hammerheads and Leman Russ Battle Tanks. If you're facing guard, you're in trouble already (still can't find a good way to fight them short of praying my opponent is a newb), and If hammerheads are shooting at your prisms, well that doesn't have to be a bad thing. They aren't likely to shoot your wave serpents thanks to the energy shields wasting their S10, so that leaves you free to charge forward with your close range units, and fly around taking potshots with your troop transports. In an army of specialists, it is all about finding a balance here.
You seem to have a pretty good handle on the game though so I think you'll do fine. I'm also planning on supplementing my prisms with a nightspinner in my 2000 point lists.
The enemy's gate is down
About the Pathfinders, I currently run 2 5-man squads in my 1k list. I might take one out, and put in a Night Spinner, It just has more of an Psychological impact on the enemy when his terminators WILL suffer 2 casualties when he moves. Or 6 orks will die on a full 30-man nob ;P. And the nice thing is, you can effect more squads with one template, if they are close enough xd. One squad of Pathfinders is probably enough for Taking down Carnifexes and other Monstreous Creatures with high strength. And pinning down units is really nice aswell =). lol
Thanks for the help,