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As some of you might know I intend to build a very dakka oriented list (1850 pts) and, using the advice and resources of this forum I have developed a skeleton of what makes me happy and that is this:
Shoota boy (x30 )
Nob - Boss Pole, PK
Shoota boy (x30 )
Nob - Boss Pole, PK
Shoota boy (x30 )
Nob - Boss Pole, PK
Aside from that I have a few ideas in my mind as to what I want for HQ.
A big mek with KFF is a must in my mind.
Ghazghkull is a tempting choice, I love his model. I wouldn't use him AS Ghaz, so much as a counts as Bad Moon badass. I know he wrecks stuff but he is a little costly right? I would probably throw him with a group of Meganobz (How many is good?) in a battlewagon.
I have also looked at taking the Mad Doc to give said Meganobz Cyborks and FNP, but that would be at the cost of my Big Mek, what do you guys think?
In the Elites Category I am rather torn:
Its a Dakka list so Lootas are happening, I also love the idea of Burnas in a Battlewagon torching things, and Kommandos seem really great too (I would definitely use Snikrot). As it stands the Meganobz count as troops with Ghaz, another bonus.
In Fast Attack:
I like the idea of Deffkoptas, Warbuggies, and Stormboyz and from what I have read Koptas are viable is used as support, Rokkit Buggies are dangerous when ignored and useful when fired upon, and I haven't read much on Stormboyz aside from their ability to get into the fight quickly. Naturally the Stormboyz are the least "Dakka" of the three, but I still have a fondness for them none-the-less. What are your thoughts?
In Heavy Support:
One Battlewagon was taken as a dedicated transport for the Meganobz and my Warboss (And possibly the Big Mek for repairs).
Another is purchased to act as a transport for the Burnaz, if I get them, otherwise I might take a 4th unit of Shoota Boyz and slap them in it for laughs.
I like Killa Kanz, I love LOVE flash gitz (Although I might make an alternate list to fit them in without Ghaz as he is a major sink himself.) Don't care for Dreads, Big Guns (I know, in a Dakka list I don't want guns?) Or looted wagons so much. I could be convinced on the Guns or Wagon though.
I am really tempted to muscle in Flash Gits though, I know they aren't the most beloved of units, but hey they are Dakka, and hard Dakka at that. I would want to make the glamerous unit that was 495 points with all the stuffinz and the Wagon, but that is a huge investment.
Any advice is appreciated!
I find that stormboyz are nice, but catch a LOT of incoming fire - they're very expensive for how fragile they are. You really need to keep them in cover (or behind terrain, preferably) until the crucial moment, and even then they're often a one-shot, as they krump their target, something shoots them, and they proceed to rush off the board. You can partly mitigate this with Zagstruck, but he's damned expensive for what he does, and the unit's still awful fragile to survive a deep strike (and striking them in charge range of the enemy is damned risky).
Flash Gitz are good in theory (who doesn't like low-AP shots!), but expensive, expensive, expensive. Again, not nearly 'ard enough for their point cost. Like Lootas, they can't take a bosspole... but they cost more than lootas, and the smaller volume of fire times BS of 2 equals not a whole lot of killy.
Meganobz are... I mean, they don't utterly suck or anything, but they're slow and a little unbalanced. Lots of points for not a whole lotta dakka, and while you've got a whole lot of klaws there, there just aren't that many units you need five or six PK to take down. Depends a lot on how much AP2 or negates-armor-saves CC the opponent has on the board. Can be nice if your opponent is tailoring towards orks, because they'll prioritize quantity of fire over the firepower of each shot, and in those circumstances Meganobz can throw them for a loop. (On the other hand, you won't have a lot of vehicles on the board, so if your opponent wipes out their transport early, they're NEVER going to get to the fight.)
Burnas have some of the same benefits - you can roll out a heck of a lot of attacks and they're great against horde infantry. However, as Orks you won't have much problems with horde infantry anyway - the other infantry hordes in the game don't tend to have stat lines as good as orks, so your regular boyz should be able to handle flashlights or gaunts on their own. And again, if you pop the Battlewagon, the burnas will take all day to get into range.
You might want to keep the amount of fast attack low. Sure, they're nice, and can do a good bit of flanking, but most of your army's going to be moving at 6+1D6/turn; if you're not careful, the enemy will hammer your fast attack stuff under with his short-ranged firepower before the rest of your forces get in range. If you do use 'em, see if you can't play terrain tricks to keep them safe until the main horde is about to engage, then break in with the fast stuff.
Some notes you may or may not like.
1) I mentioned this in another thread, but consider breaking up your 30 strong mob's into 20 strong. Bit easier to move around, and your enemies will have to divide more fire.
2) A line of grots would be useful to break up fire at your main troops. By keeping them in the front, they give the boyz a 4+ cover save. The KFF will then give your grotz a 5+ save.
3) I love killa kan's. Keep in mind that if you have vehicles and troops, they'll be proceeding at different speeds across the board. It will take some maneuvering to get the horde to all arrive around the same time. Always make sure to take more then one BW if you're using them. One will be shot to pieces. Two, your enemy has to divide their firepower.
4) A fast attack setup I've found useful is running 3 deffchopta's, one in each fast slot. I like to turbo boost them in the opponents face on their scout move. If you get to go first, you can then move them another 12 inches, and fire away, then assault. If you don't get to go, the enemy will usually freak out, and fire everything he has at them, wasting an entire firing phase to take out chopta's with 3+ cover saves and 2W's.
Looks pretty good. I’d disagree with greggles and keep them at 30-strong. It really adds to their survivability and they’ll spend more time with Mob Rule. I’d recommend that you take 3 big shoota boys per unit to add a kick and a bit of longrange fire as an option (say, once they’re sitting on an objective they can still do something).
Don’t know much about using the special characters, except that they’re expensive! Ghazghull’s main bonus is his super-waaagh! Which will primarily benefit footslogging hordes.
Meganobz have their ups and downs. I use them as a unit of four in a trukk or wagon and toss them at key enemies (high toughness, high armor save units). Combi-burnas can be useful on them. Be warned that they are fragile against anything that ignores armor though. I like them.
Avatar’s analysis of storm boyz was spot on.
I’ll disagree with Avatar’s take on burnas. Don’t forget that their burnas can be used as powerweapons, provided they did not fire the flame template in the shooting phase. Thus, they can cut through armored elites. They make a surprisingly effective retinue for a warboss. They excel at hordes, but they’re quite good against other more elite foes. Lets say theres a unit of 5 devestator marines. The flame template can cover all 5. Multiply that by the number of burnas in the trukk/wagon (lets say theres 10). That’s 50 hits. That squad will have a rough time making all their saving throws. In a way, they’re kind of like shootas- they work best against hordes but stack enough hits and wounds to make elites take lots of saving throws.
Fast attack stuff will help you take down the worst enemy vehicles and distract from your boy mobz.
Lootas! Nobody does 'dakka' better than them. Other good shooty units are big gunz kannons (I'd convert them, possibly out of Imperial Guard weapons teams and grots, rather than shell out for expensive pewter models), killa kans, deffkoptas, rokkit buggies, warbikes, and shoota boyz.
The Shokk Attakk Gun and Warp Eads are fun, and effective shooters, although a KFF or warboss is often more effective (just not shooty).
I'm not a fan of burnas. Shoota boyz in a battlewagon seem to outperform them in virtually every way. The burnas can do more damage, of course, but shoota boyz are a lot more cost effective, can claim objectives, and include both a powerklaw and bosspole. I'd go with shootas.
What is your take on these ladz, worth the investment for the armor or not so much?
Also, would they be better as Sluggas or Shootas?
Since you are dealing with a shooty list, I'd say no to ard boyz. eavy armor gives you a 4+ armor save. This save is most useful in close combat, as only certain weapons will negate it. In ranged battles, there are many AP4 or better weapons which nullify this save, making it a waste of 5 points. Orks excel in numbers because they are so cheap. At 6 points a boy, losing one to an AP4 weapon doesn't effect a thing. At 11 points an ard boy, it hurts a little! In fact, I find it hilarous when opponents end up wasting tons of anti tank fire vs an ork mob. Str 8 AP1 weapons? Ha, sure, 1 boy dies! LOL
Those 5 points would be better spent towards a line of grots. The grots not only cost less (3 points each), but they'll give all the boyz behind them a 4+ save. Additionally if there is a KFF nearby, all the grotz will get a 5+ cover save from the KFF! Making it extremely annoying for your opponent to take out your firing line.
IMO, eavy armor is best used on slugga boyz jumping out of a battlewagon, straight into close combat. Of course there is a ton of debates on this, it's just my opinion based on my very limited experience.
Last edited by greggles; November 8th, 2010 at 13:55.
Ard boyz only seem worth it on slugga boyz in trukks, as a 'tarpit' to break large hordes or marines, where they'll need several rounds to win the combat.
All in all though, you're probably better off taking a larger unit in a battlewagon, nobz, or meganobz.
I always run a squad of 12 'Ard boys trukked up, if nothing else as a bullet sponge. I haven't had a TON of games using them, but the idea is to run them straight at the battleline of the enemy. Before I got my Trukk, 'Ard boys did a great job of smashing up small-ish Tactical Squads, so I'm planning on using that principle... BUT FASTA!
I say go for the Flash Gitz. But then I always do, as they are pretty much the unit that made me make the jump from Dawn of War to Tabletop. TRY not to get carried away as I admit they are a points sink, and def keep them out of small points fights, but they can have their uses.
Meganobs: I like foot slogging 3 of them, or trukking 4-5 of them. The footslogging ones I generally use as mid-field objective campers since they're dead 'ard and can weather a fusilade or 12, especially if they have cover to protect from the rogue Melta shot or Krak missle.
I am verbose. Sorry.
Kargh's Wite Butz, Death Skullz Orks: W: 5, L:, 2 D:2; Silver-skull Necrons: 1W 1L,500 pt