Pain tokens on Harlequins? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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    Pain tokens on Harlequins?

    After reading through the codex, Harlequins don't seem to benefit from the Power from Pain rule (understandably, as it would be unfair to our craftworld cousins). However, it seems that it's still possible to put pain tokens onto a unit of Harlequins (IC with a pain token joins the unit or nearby Cronos sends one over). My question is, does the unit without Power from Pain benefit from the pain tokens? I read the wording in the codex and it seems to imply that "Dark Eldar" units benefit from pain tokens, but Power from Pain is the ability that gives you pain tokens. Am I right? Can I give my Harleys FnP and FC?


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    Son of LO kevin vanrooyen's Avatar
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    Technically yes you can, however this is very "cheesy" and your opponent may hit you, especially if they play our craftworld cousins.

    The Emperor Protects
    IG Best Gen 1st overall of 10 DE 4th overall of 6
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    LO's Shadow Captain Lost Nemesis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin vanrooyen View Post
    Technically yes you can, however this is very "cheesy" and your opponent may hit you, especially if they play our craftworld cousins.

    The Emperor Protects
    Not cheesy at all - just utilizing a rule that's unique to the Dark Eldar to benefit a unit in the DE codex.

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    Son of LO kevin vanrooyen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lost Nemesis View Post
    Not cheesy at all - just utilizing a rule that's unique to the Dark Eldar to benefit a unit in the DE codex.
    Well I dont play in the most compedative metagame, in fact my imperial guard army, including penal legionaires, flamer vets, and even a dual heavy bolter chimera has been termed cheesy, while it is in fact simply compedative or semi compedative if you ask some people on this site. If I wanted to truly be cheesy i'd be packing more than 1 vendetta and more than 2 chimeltas in 1750.

    The first time I all reserved over half of the people were telling me it was "illegal, unfair, cheesy" for "talking back" I was almost kicked out of my LGS, while i was in fact talking and citing pages in the rulebook while the other peoples argument was based off of "I work here therefore I cant be wrong". I hate that employee but that's a rant for another day...

    The Emperor Protects
    Last edited by kevin vanrooyen; November 6th, 2010 at 04:18.
    IG Best Gen 1st overall of 10 DE 4th overall of 6
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    Senior Member designer891's Avatar
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    If Harlequins don't have the rule "Power from Pain" they can't use tokens... tokens can only be used by units with "Power from Pain" which harlequins don't have. I am not sure why people are so confused by this. Not only that, they wont get the acute senses ability ether cause they are not Dark Eldar at all but fight along side of Dark Eldar.
    Last edited by designer891; November 6th, 2010 at 05:05.

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    Son of LO kevin vanrooyen's Avatar
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    Power through pain describes how a unit will generally get pain points, it does not say that you may only use pain points with units that have the power through pain rule. It goes on to say that and then describe bonuses a unit with one or more pain points has, it does not mention the unit needing the power through pain special rule.

    Think of it kind of like dedicated transports, sure anyone can grab a ride, but only certain units can get the transport themselves, in this case anyone can use pain points but not anyone can generate them.

    The Emperor Protects
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    Orks_n_Bugs Bugs_n_Orks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scorlibrian View Post
    Can I give my Harleys FnP and FC?
    don't you mean... DOUBLE SECRET furious charge, bwahahahahah (evil laughter)

    (but actually they come with FC so don't worry about that one, I missed it too on my first read through the codex)
    Last edited by Bugs_n_Orks; November 6th, 2010 at 06:10.
    The meat things seek to destroy ourselves. They hunt us as we hunt them but they are weak and uncertain. Bring them understanding of the power of ourselves through our strength and their fear. The inferior flesh will be entirely destroyed, all fragments will be smashed. Ourselves will fight to the last, all weak flesh must be consumed

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    Senior Member designer891's Avatar
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    I don't have the Dark Eldar codex in my hand yet, but it just doesn't make sense that a unit without the ability can use tokens from units with the ablity. I think it's talking more about units joining other units with the ablity as well sharing tokens and such. This is not how they intended it to be used I will wait to read the codex myself as I find this to be a bit cheesy and I am a Eldar/DE player. If it is a loop hole I hope it gets FAQed out as cleary Harlequins don't have the same S&M life style the DE have and can't benefit from such a rule.

    If you intend on playing like that though be ready for many arguments - Harle's with FnP, almost as hard to kill as a seer council and more powerful... I don't think so
    Last edited by designer891; November 6th, 2010 at 06:17.

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    Oh yea... forgot about Dance of Death. Well, hopefully it gets clarified in the FAQ, but RAW, I think it works. These are the passages that leads me to believe that it works, provided we agree that the Harlequins are a "Dark Eldar" unit simply because they are in the Dark Eldar codex. These are direct quotes from the codex which I have right beside me.

    Power from Pain:
    "Whenever a Dark Eldar unit with this rule destroys a non-vehicle enemy unit, it immediately gains a 'pain token'."
    "Each pain token confers a special rule to the entire unit..."
    "Note that pain tokens can be gained by other means - some units even start the game with one!"

    Sharing the Pain:
    "If a Dark Eldar unit is joined by one or more characters with pain tokens, all of the pain tokens for the unit and the characters that have joined it are pooled."

    This combined with the fact that the Cronos Pain Engine doesn't require the unit to have Power from Pain to give it a pain token, I think it's fairly clear.

    This issue also arises in the Court of the Archon. Medusae and Lhamaeans have Power from Pain, but Sslyths and Ur-Ghuls do not. Even though both Sslyths and Ur-Ghuls come with FnP and Ur-Ghuls come with FC, do they still not benefit from pain tokens on the unit? Can Sslyths never have FC? Can neither be Fearless? Some models in the unit may have Power through Pain, but the rule says it gives the abilities to the entire unit.

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    Sorry, double post.

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