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just finished putting him together and was hoping for some tips. I was thinking of hiding him behind my MC tervigon to block los so he can't be shot at. All those damn tentical-arms make it hard to hide him well. Do they actually count as part of him or more like wings? (same for the smoke stacks on the back)
If a model were mostly obscured like that by another unit, it's still only a 4+ cover save? (more almost a general rule question) do you only get a 4+ cover save even if only your head can be seen above a parapit, wall, etc?
Last edited by badxample; November 16th, 2010 at 15:09.
I've been reading through the general rules, and I believe you are correct-- when any part of the model in question is visible from enemy LoS, then whatever is blocking him confers a standard +4 cover save to the model.
Sounds like your venomthrope would have a similar situation to the problems of a winged Flyrant. From an in-store discussion with the store manager arbitrating, we determined that what has to be obscured is the 'main bulk or body' of the model; thus, wings don't count, arms and weapons don't count, and I'd most certainly think tentacles and the smoke stacks wouldn't count.
Heads can be tricky because they're technically an important target (fluff-wise anyway), and yet they're usually very small targets. Fluff-wise, cover is always assumed to be used by models to their maimum potential; i.e., if their head is visible, there's no reason to believe that they won't duck in an actual firefight. I'd say a +4 cover save would be satisfactory in most situations like this; at worst, if you are heavily contested on it, there's always his built-in +5. And so far as I know, only battlements and bunkers and the like confer a +3 save anyway. Unless you wanted to argue that they couldn't see your model at all.
I guess there is no middle ground for cover saves between "cannot be shot at" and "fitfy-fifty chance" (ala 4+ save vs. u can't see him). Venomthrope should have stealth with his spore clouds obscuring things...
as for his body parts the smoke stacks probably wouldn't count as a body part. His tentacles are a hard one as they're tecnically part of his arm, then again one could argue they're a weapon... Suddenly i'm wishing my tervigon were twice as big.
The whole cover save for being behind impending models is one of those iffy rules to me as you would think that if a person had to shoot through 2 units of gaunts, a unit of warriors and see past a monstrous creature, then you should feasibly get a better cover save than the 2nd rank of gaunts behind the leading squad (as there is more impending cover). I would probably ask your opponent if he is willing to submit to a particular model getting an enhanced cover save in a situation like this, as there is no harm in asking.
I somewhat theorycrafted on the utility of venomthropes and using them in unison with tervigons and gaunt squads would be the most effective way to utilise their special rules. The fact that if you keep them in range of the gaunt squads advancing in front of a tervigon, they could give cover saves to both the gaunts and the tervigon makes them well and truely worth their points, especially if you are gonna be casting "catalyst" on your gaunt squads each turn. 5+ cover saves with 4+ FnP definitely makes the gaunts more resilient, as well as the fact that any unit wanting to assault the gaunts would both have to make a difficult terrain test (Spore cloud special rule) when trying to assault the gaunts and unless they had the equivalent of offensive grenades, are going to be hit by the gaunts first, since they will be striking at Initiative 1. If you couple this together with the fact that if you keep the gaunts in the 6" range of a tervigon for adrenal glands and toxin sacs, those gaunt squads are going to be real nasty to deal with unless you can either take out the tervigons that are running with them or deny their cover saves by taking out the venomthropes.
In my opinion though, most people will try to kill off the gaunt squads trying to get closer to them or the MC's looming behind them rather than the stupid tentacle guys that have no shooting attacks and need to get through the swath of models in the way before they reach combat.
Just to put things in perspective, if you can keep a gaunt squad within 6" of a venomthrope when they get assaulted and within 6" of the tervigon after the pile in moves, unless your opponent has offensive grenades, then they are gonna get hit first by 2X number of gaunts at S4, I5 and with re-rolls to wound if you are up against anything T4 or less, and that is if they pass their difficult terrain test to start off with. Makes the humble gaunt squads seem more scary now doesn't it.
General rule is: If 50% or more of the model is obscured than it gets the 4+ cover save. If there is a question concerning the cover you can either roll-off or take a cover save one less. (5+). Extra gribbly bits do not count towards targeting/cover. So wings, spikes, weapons, etc... aren't concidered part of the body. If 50% of the body of the model is behind cover, it gets the save.
Same goes for a unit. If 50%+ of the unit is obscured, it gets the cover save. So gaunts can give cover to warriors, can give cover to venomthrope.
oh, and you forgot to add that the termagants also have the counter-attack rule from the tervigon that they use the tervigon's leadership of 10 to test for.
no theory-crafting required, this combination of units is HEAPS of fun to use. venomthropes are definitely one of my favourite units in the codex and absolutely essential for foot-slogging lists
One benefit not mentioned that is also useful is that the Spore Cloud prevents attackers from getting their bonus attacks for charging. Auto-defensive grenades FTW!
ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014
i'm sure i've read through rulebook around this because i assumed initially that dangerous terrain also counted as difficult terrain, but couldn't find anything that stated this?
It's not stated outright from what I could find, but it's pretty implicit from the wording on page 13 of the BRB (which I was going to quote here, but then remembered that we aren't allowed to do that).
It looks like it gets clearer when it actually comes up in play though, as it seems dangerous terrain really just uses the difficult terrain mechanic, but with the wound test thrown in.
Also, I suddenly have a violent urge to use Venompthropes myself.
Last edited by Mads; November 17th, 2010 at 03:59.
yes. they're yummy evil yellow delicous clouds of flesh rotting necrotising phages. Sadly they are easily cast away by killing the poor defenseless tenticle face. Thus i started this thread. How do you guys protect him or do you offer him up and say "it was worth it to draw fire." Not to mention steal an elite choice... which on a rant... shouldn't hivegaurd and zoanthropes be heavy support since they're really anti-armor?