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My first game against my friends nids since the new codex. It isnt his main army, and we only play for fun (limited by what we own), but at the same time it was so easy to win that neither of us after the game could think of a way of turning the tide against my list.
I did break one rule, which upon re-reading my codex have noticed (took harlies in a dedicated transport) but even so considering what happened it wouldnt have changed the game.
I took 2 warrior squads and 1 wych squad, all in raiders with dissys. Beast master squad with 2 bm's, 3 khymera and 2 razorwing flocks, 5 harliquins in a venom, Cronos, baron sythorax with 8 helions, ravager with 3 dissys, and a succubus in the wych squad.
In turn onemy venom killed his lone zoanthrope, ravager killed his carnifex, some other poison shots took a wound off his hive tyrant, and his other carnifex lost 2 wounds to splinter cannon fire. Then throughout the game, he lost assault after assault due to his initiative values, hive tyrant died to more splinter fire, other carnifex died without making a hit back to the beast masters. I had feel no pain and furious charge all over thanks to the cronos and rampaging assaults. it felt unfair.
The fact that nids work by using a lot of "cannon fodder" seems to play into our hands. My hellions tore through a squad of gargoyles, wyches took out hormogaunts, obviously cronos doesnt have a hard time dishing out wounds to hordes. By the end of turn 2 my army was twice as hard as before due to feel no pain on a lot of squads.
Which brings me to my issue. I love the rule, but it seems imbalanced against certain armies. Ive been playing DE for years, but now having an even easier time of winning people around here than before. But PFP means that against hordes/cannon fodder armies you end up a lot stronger early on than you would against marines or chaos.
What are peoples opinions on PFP from a balance issue? I know there is the case of "well the enemy shouldnt let you get the kills", but at the same time, I cant imagine a tyranid army been a huge threat to the dark eldar any time soon.
Ive gone on a tangent now and forgotten why I started this little rant, so I am not going to press that post button down there and see what happens!
PfP will change the metagame but I wouldn't say its unbalanced. Gives people more of an incentive to take full squads instead of MSU crap.
League Stats: Orks 4W-1L-1T, CSM 4W-2L-0T, Dark Eldar 10W-6L-4T, Tau 3W-1L-1T, Blood Angels 4W-1L-1T, Imperial Guard 2W-1L-0T
Tourney Stats: Blood Angels 6W-0L-0T, Dark Eldar 2W-1L-0T
I happen to agree with Vinsklortho - the rule should balance with time, especially as our opponents get used to the new Codex. I do agree that DE are unarguably competative against Nids - all that Poison and higher Initiative strike at the heart of the strengths of the Nid army.
However, Gimpy, I did not see any Hive Gaurd mentioned in the description from your game. Did your friend not have any in the list? If so you might expect that to change - as someone who fights Tyranids ALOT, that is one of the units I am worried about facing with my shiny new DE.
Having 3 or 6 of them on the field might shift the flow of the battle - 24" range, S8, 2 shots, no LOS needed PER Hive Gaurd model is gonna put the pain on a typical raider/venom-heavy Kabalite list. Having 3 units of 2 Hive Gaurd in a Nid list hunkered down in heavy cover will get you 12 of those shots per turn that can target 3 different transports. Not a pretty thought. Especially since those guys are T6 with 2W.
I think it will be intersting to see how your games with your mate's Nids shape up after a few battles, especially as they get used to your list and compensate with unit selection and strategy on their end.
I am hoping to have my first small skirmishes this week against Nids, and am curious to see if I have a similar experience or not. Will let you know!
He had no hive guard, but he hasnt played his tyranids for quite a while so it was more a "take what you can" type list to an extent. Its still very much built around the 4th ed codex from what I could tell.
The tyrant guard do seem fairly brutal, I think night sheilds may be taken next time once he clicks onto those little beasties like! heh.
After having a read of the codex now, there are a fair few nid units that would worry me. I suppose it all comes down to getting the alpha strike (as always is the case with us DE players). Once you get a few pain tokens on the go things against nids go a lot smoother, you outlast them in CC. Its a case of the nid player knowing that, and taking larger units to avoid the tokens been given away too easy, and taking things to take out our transports. I have a feeling my next game against the same player may not be so easy!
On the up side, im playing another nid player this weekend in a small 1250 game. His list is nothing but a load of genestealers and 2 Trygons. Seems a bizzare list, but he insists that even with my poisoned weapons I wont be able to harm the trygons. Should be a fun one! heh.
I'd have to agree. I am actually looking forward very much to facing Trygons with my DE. Given a single Venom with Trueborn kitted out for maximum poison delivery can peel away around 4 Carni/Trygon wounds per shooting phase.Originally Posted by Archon Charybdis
Only bugger could be if those Trygons go free range and Deepstrike as that will give them protection from our shooting until they are too close for comfort. But new DE poison vs TMC's = Fun!
DE just changed everything for those high T armies, carnifexes even have cause to fear a wytch charge due to their lower point costs, new and improved wytch weapons, and especially their poisoned pistols.
The Emperor Protects
IG Best Gen 1st overall of 10 DE 4th overall of 6
Eldar 3rd Overall/Best General of 26--2nd Overall/Best General of 7--1st Overall/Best General of 11
So we had a rematch! This time he had a VERY different force. It was much larger squads, had 3 hive guard. And 2 venomthropes.
He deployed second and had every single unit covered by the 2 venomthropes. Which was horrible for my planning as I had to rely on taking them out, or accept casualties on my early charges. He also took a tervigon thingy which craps out gaunts and hands out FNP to one unit a turn. I took a similar list to last time, swapping the harlies for 4 incubi. Took lillith instead of the other 2 HQ's.
In the first turn I managed to kill both venomthropes with ravager/raider fire making it safe to charge, but this meant i didnt fire shots at anything else apart from with my cronos, which killed all of 1 single gaunt (tho making my wyches gain a pain token) My wyches rolled a 1 for the run. Which left then half an inch out of charge range and in the open. Devestating luck!
After that it was fairly standard tactics apart from a few standout things.
I managed to win 2 assaults with hellions and lillith + incubi, and on both rolled a 1 for consolidation, leaving them both just short of the area terrain I needed to get in. They both got charged. Lillith was charged by a hive tyrant and tervigon, had her inititive and WS reduced to 1 from some psychic power, and got owned!
The venom, again, was amazing. Even when empty flying about 12 inchs, firing 12 poisoned shots was devestating. Killed a hell of a lot.
Dissy ravagers, again, amazing. I had 2 FNP carnifex's bearing down on me. 9 shots a ravager, yes they need 5+ to wound, but are ap 2, so tore through them ignoring armour and FNP.
In the end we did not have many units left on either side, I had all my transports still in turn 5 thanks to night shields, and just used them to contest his objective at the end, winning the game.
It was very close, and I will be not relying on run moves to get me in charge range again. Im also considering taking a second cronos next time.
Overall though, not a walkover like last time. And now my opponents done some research, his force worries me again!
I recently played a game against Nids and he brought quite a few HG. I found it easiest to keep everything in raiders and wait for my ravagers to kill all of them. The NS bringing their range down to 18", it was much easier pickings for Ravagers and Raiders alike. The only thing I can think of that might pose a threat to a smart DE player, would probably be thigs in spores that can immediately shoot at you