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  1. #1
    Member Vinsklortho's Avatar
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    Oct 2010
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    Personal Experiences with units

    Now that the codex is out and people have had a chance to play a game or two with it I was hoping we could make a thread about what units did well, what units did poorly, what units disappointed, and what units delighted. Hopefully with our collective experience we can help instruct other people on how to use certain units more effectively. With our testimonials we can persuade others to give units a second chance that they've written off. Stick to actual play experience and leave the theorycrafting for other threads(especially if/should statements). I'll start off.

    Disappointing Units
    Wyches: They've held up a couple of units, but the hitting power has been weak and any time they've been exposed to fire without a pain token has been painful(duh). I've disliked the fragility and the randomness of relying on Combat Drugs.

    Incubi: I chalk it up to bad luck, but they never seem to inflict that many wounds on the charge. For some reason they felt deadlier in the earlier edition, but that could just be the changed metagame or playing the wrong opponents.

    Archon: He kills a few guys, he fails his invuln save once, he dies. I blame bad luck mostly. I send in my Archon with my Incubi, but maybe I need more support in CC for them.

    Surprisingly good units
    Wracks: They are tough and they annhilate infantry when they get even a semi-decent AP roll with their liquifier guns. It is one of the few units I've had that has gotten a pain token through shooting. Most of the enemy units that get finished off in shooting seem to die to vehicles sadly.

    Raiders: Less gunlines running around along with more durable vehicles this edition makes this vehicle feel alot tougher. I've ended up finishing all of my non-apocalypse games with at least 50% of my Raiders still functional. Its the transport vehicle that many other assault armies wish they could take. Its cheap, offers decent fire support, and can increase its versatility through upgrades.

    (triple disentegrator) Ravager: I scoffed at it at first having seen the vehicle heavy landscape I often times find myself in, but then I tried it... I can't think of this vehicle without images of a helicopter gunship mowing down infantry with its miniguns in a war movie. It was my MVP in my last game. It destroyed a devastator squad in cover in one round of shooting. It destroyed the unit surrounding a Chapter Master in two rounds. If your MEQ opponent is staying in cover and taking advantage of terrain every chance he can then it is because of the pure pants-crapping terror evoked by the near equivalent of 3 3rd ed Star Cannons fired at BS4.

    Units as bad as I expected
    None: Why would I take a unit if I knew it was bad? I hate to think that GW releases bad units on purpose.

    Units as good as I expected
    Warriors: They killed tanks with Blaster/Dark Lance(including a Stompa). They killed infantry. They claimed objectives. They aren't as flashy as other units, but they are solid choices.

    Reavers: They're good on paper and they performed very well in game. If you can't see why Reavers are good ask yourself how much autohitting and forcing morale and pinning tests in the movement phase is to you. Two attempts(moving and shooting phase) at making certain units flee off the board is very nice.

    League Stats: Orks 4W-1L-1T, CSM 4W-2L-0T, Dark Eldar 10W-6L-4T, Tau 3W-1L-1T, Blood Angels 4W-1L-1T, Imperial Guard 2W-1L-0T
    Tourney Stats: Blood Angels 6W-0L-0T, Dark Eldar 2W-1L-0T

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  3. #2
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    I've played with various units in eight games so far. As a disclaimer, I will say that it's not an exhaustive sample and there are units that will find a niche use or be better against some armies over others depending if you tailor your list or run a more tournament-against-all-comers list. Its all subjective and as always YMMV, but this is my experience so far.

    Disappointing units

    Chronos: I thought this would be a great unit which would generate a lot of tokens. I think against t3 armies, this will be the case. I have found that against higher toughness armies (where poison excels), its performance has been disappointing. WS3 has hurt its ability in CC. A marine with a fist hits it on 3's and wounds it on 3's. The template attack is good at S4 but the lg blast at S3 is kinda meh. I find running a third Ravager to be more effective for me personally.

    Warriors: Mainly for the reason that I think it was too big of a nerf to not only cut down on having 2 DL's in a ten man unit because they also upped the cost of the warrior and the DL itself. The old 100 point sniper squad was too good. Now before there is too much retaliation, the poison splinter weapons does offset this a bit against higher toughness armies. But in fairness, they are less effective against t3 armies.

    Lelith: I think she is a good unit but her cost is a bit disappointing. If she had the ability to make blood brides scoring or something along those lines, then the cost would be more appropriate. Drop the cost by 20 or so, then she would be more attractive to me. HQ's are important choices as there are just two slots. Does she warrant replacing an Archon, the Duke or the pain tokens from Haemmy's? For some yes, for me no.

    Surprisingly good units

    Beasts: I'm using my old warp beasts (chaos hounds) as khymaera and they have been stunning. I didn't expect them to be such CC beasts as I had it in my head I lacked a flock to get those rends. I mainly took them as a screening force to soak up wounds while other units got to the fight. I find them to be stupidly good at both for the price of a marine tank. I will be adding a couple of flocks to the unit eventually.

    Ravagers: The ability to move/fire 3 DL's and the cheap cost of a flicker/Night shields has made these much tougher. They are important AT in the games I play as I face a lot of mech marine armies. As long as I use terrain to try and minimize the 48" long missle/las units, they tend to last a lot longer this edition.

    True born: Wow, coupled with a SC venom, its been a terrific anti-troop unit. Deep striking, within 18" of a infantry firebase has been very effective for me. If I don't have to disembark, its nice to be able to fire off 12 SC shots from the vehicle with the ability to have the TB shoot at a different target is a nice option. They can put out 8 more SC shots and 9 carbine shots at 18". I haven't run a blaster setup yet but am seriously considering running a third unit with blasters.

    Wracks: As troops they are fantastic for holding objectives. If they stay mounted, two liquifiers can work really well. I used to run a kroot merc squad in 4th. I am finding the wracks to be about as tough in cover. They will get in my Haemmy lists. troops.

    Raiders: I too am finding them to last longer than expected. In my old portal lists, they were good. In 5th, they last a lot longer. I put a flicker field on mine. I know its only a 33% chance to negate fire. But when you run a lot of vehicles, the chance to dilute incoming fire is nice.

    Duke S: For his cost points, I have been very pleased with his abilities and army powers. Since I tend to run a lot of drug users, the chance to get a different result has been very nice. Also the DS options he opens up has made my army a lot more flexible. He is also pretty good in CC with a wych squad.

    Units as good as I expected

    Wyches: They preform just as well as before but are cheaper on the whole. I do miss the cheap blaster's as I used to use them a fair amount. They have a tough time against plague marines needing 6's to wound. But getting a FNP token helps with not being able to consolidate into another combat. They used to be guaranteed to get erased after winning a CC in my turn if I couldn't consolidate into cover.

    Archon: He does everything as before. His cost seems right as well.

    Units I plan to try but haven't because they don't look as good on paper

    Scourges: They have some interesting possibilities. Jump troop DL fire base, tank hunters. A little pricey but perhaps they may be more effective and worth the points. If the models are nice, they may make it into my army.

    Mandrakes: These are terrific models. If they were blood bride cost or if they didn't require a token to shoot, they would be more attractive to me. They compete against true born for slots. nuff said

    Hellions: Very nice models but they need a token to be more survivable. I may toy with a baron unit to see how they perform.

    Swooping hawks (Reavers): I will definitely give a caltrop unit a test. The non-turbo save is a bit disappointing. I will definitely miss the old stat line.

    Talos: This might be worth a Rav spot. I never used it in my old lists because it was slow. With a beast screen and 5th edition set ups like dawn of war night fight and table quarters, it has more potential.

  4. #3
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    Ive been playing for years as DE so have been dying to try out as many of the new units as I can. I wont repeat the obvious thats already been said (ravagers, raiders been ace, etc) but I will post a few standout units that have disapointed or exceeded expectations for me.

    Used it twice. Once against dark angels, once against nids. First time I ran it it was very disapointing. I only took it with the vortex and its str 3, despite been ap3, did not kill a single marine. After that it got tied up in CC and whittled down. In the end it died without creating a single pain token.
    Second time was against nids! This time it was outstanding, took both the vortex and syphon this time, and was dishing out pain tokens all over the place against the lower toughness horde army. It finally died in CC against a hive tyrant, but still it did its job and boosted my 10 strong helion squad...which brings me onto...

    Used them once so far, against tyranids. They were brutal, but not sure how they would fare in other circumstances. I rolled the +1 str drug, and got 2 pain tokens on them very early on thanks to the cronos. They ended up witha mighty str 6 on the charge which tore through a massive pile of gargoyles and quite a few genestealers. unfortunately I got some bad luck after that and they got shot at and ran away! Overall though, once they get FNP they are a good tough unit. A lot better than I expected. Im considering running a heamy with them in my next game vs marines and dropping the heamy out the squad on turn one, leaving the FNP token with the helions.

    Very good so far. 2 games and both times were exceptional. First game against dark angels, took 4 of the with standard carbines, just to use as a distraction unit on a flank. Ended up taking out a whole devestator squad, then harrasing a tactical squad. Took a krak missile to the face too and shrugged it off (6+ invul lucky roll!)

    Second game also against marines, took 5 with 2 heat lances. Blew up a rhino, and killed a fair few marines before a vindicator dropped a shell on them from 9 inches away. Again the invul save left me with 1 model witha heatlance thanks to the invulnerable save, who didnt run away, and proceeded to jump over to the back of the vindi, and heatlance its rear armor.

    I converted a venom as soon as I read the rules. 12 poisoned shots at 36 inch with bs4 after a 12" move, plus a 5+ invul save, plus a transport. For 75 points! You'd be crazy not to use this. I tend to use it to drop in my archon with 4 incubi (or just 5 incubi) then after that use it as a firebase. So far its trophey rack boasts a carnifex, a hive tyrant and a wraithlord, along with countless marines. It sounds like the killing record of a special character or a hugh tank, not a small nippy transport. Extremely good for the points cost and makes it into every single one of my lists.

    Also, jsut because, heres my venom (before I added more spikes)

    And one unit that has proven so crazy for me. Harlequins
    I know I shouldnt use them, as I have better cc options, but I LOVE the models! So far they have caused havoc in both games I fielded them. But always get themselves and their allies killed. They successfully charged a rhino, making it explode. The resulting explosion killed 4 of the 5 harlies, 5 of the 10 strong wych squad nearby, and 1 incubi. Making my assaults they were locked into a lot less impressive! Good old suicidal tactics of mine!

  5. #4
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    I'm an Eldar player, and thought I would add my experience playing agains the new DE. I should add that our lgs players are only using the released models and haven't been proxying yet.

    Good Units
    Archon w2+ save. Once he got into CC he swept through my army. Kept making all of those 2+ saves!
    Incubi. Again, once they got into CC they were devastating! Definatley a priority target for my shooting from now on.
    Ravager. While the lance rule doesn't help against my AV12, having 3 heavy weapons certaily does!
    Revers. fast and deadly. Using that 3+ turbo boost save is just scarey.

    Just Okay
    Warriors. the low armor really hurts them here, but they do look cool have some neat weapon options.

    Die easy
    Raiders. With Eldar it's easy for me to mass S6 shots (near 80/turn in 1500pts and many guided with FarSeer) and this really takes advantage of the AV10 opentopped armor. There's rarely a raider standing by end of turn 2. This also allows me to put the incubi and other CC troops on the ground in turn 1-2.
    Wyches. I haven't seen them in CC yet, as they get shotup pretty quick. Of course this is partially due to I DON'T want them to get into CC!

    vs. Dark Eldar I will almost always bring: 2 Night Spinners (S6 rending, pinning, large blast), 3 WarWalkers with dual Scatter Lasers and guideseer (24x S6 36"-re-roll misses)
    3-4Warlocks on jetbikes with Destructor and Doom/Fortune Farseer (3-4 flame templates S5 AP4, Doom=re-roll wounds)
    At the beginning of turn 1, I spray my opponent's army with the bacon flavored spray. Then I unleash my Boston Terrier Squiggoth who then devours their entire bacon flavored army! There is no defense against her cuteness! All are doomed!

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