Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
Howdy, so i've been thinking about this for most of the morning, the silly wound allocation madness that beast packs give us the chance for, so hour about:
2 razorwing flocks
2 clawfiends - 290 pts
V expensive but possibly very very tough we have:
10 T 3 wounds
10 T 3 wounds with a 4++ save
10 T 3 wounds that can only be ID'd by S 10 (i'm aware for wounding the swuad is T3 but for ID against the model you use it's base T rather than the squads right?)
4 expendable T 3 wounds on beastmasters
The T 3 wounds can happily absorb some small arms fire what with razrowing flocks having 5 wounds each they can take a fair emount of bolter fire, kymeras can absorb and have a 50% chance of negating most shots (S10 inpartcilar as this will ID the fiends or flocks).
Add to this toughness that they're fast being beasts and pack a fair punch in CC (at full strength the squad puts out 40 S 4, 15 S 3, 10 S 5 and 10 S 3 rending attacks at I5 on the charge).
So what do you think? could it work?
I find two beast masters with 10 Khymerae to be an extremely cheap but effective unit. I thought about adding 1-2 more BM's and razor wings but found it to be unnecessary. This set up is essentially a bloodbride unit with 12" charge. The only thing it suffers from is not having combat drugs.
I try to keep all my units cost @ 150 or less points (not including a raider). I would rather go with two of my packs and save the 6 points than go with a more expensive unit. Having a second tough unit with 30 S4 attacks that I can use as a diversion or screen just makes more sense for my style. The bigger unit could be more to your play style but I see DE as more of a horde type army with regards to forcing my opponent to spread fire out amongst more units.
Another BIG downside is their Ld. Anything that can force a Ld/pinning test is bad news for Beast Packs and having such a big one makes them that much more of a target. And it gets much worse if there's any kind of a negative modifier (ie: Fear of the Darkness). I use 3 Beastmasters and 5/2/1 of the others and it works wonders in every game I've used them in. They've torn vehicles and squads of all shapes and sizes apart, they're so fast that most opponents don't even get chance to shoot at them, and at 166 points they're really not that expensive either.
The meat things seek to destroy ourselves. They hunt us as we hunt them but they are weak and uncertain. Bring them understanding of the power of ourselves through our strength and their fear. The inferior flesh will be entirely destroyed, all fragments will be smashed. Ourselves will fight to the last, all weak flesh must be consumed
dude 5 beastmaters with 10 flocks, = 50 wounds and 60 attacks on charge with rending!
Their Ld is 8 as long as 1 BM is alive which isn't actually to bad (not great but now bad) and most/all DE units have this problem anyway.
I am agreeing that multiple smaller units are the way to go.
Honestly I'm a huge fan of 4 Beastmasters & 4 Clawed Fiends. You need S10 to double tough (very few guns have this). So in the end I get a few wounds on the beasts T1 before assaulting T2. It's nasty (20 Clawed Attacks + Wounds).
Since taking a wound on a Clawed Fiend gives it +1 A, does it change its profile enough to warrant it being treated as something different when wound allocation comes into the picture?
League Stats: Orks 4W-1L-1T, CSM 4W-2L-0T, Dark Eldar 10W-6L-4T, Tau 3W-1L-1T, Blood Angels 4W-1L-1T, Imperial Guard 2W-1L-0T
Tourney Stats: Blood Angels 6W-0L-0T, Dark Eldar 2W-1L-0T
For me when I wound allocate I apply wounds on the beasts first. Then after they fill up kill 3 beastmasters. Then kill the final beastmaster with the power weapon. Finally the clawed beasts die. It's nice to know there is no downside if there is no beastmaster
Khymerae and razorwings are the better choices for a typical beastmaster unit simply because they provide features not found elsewhere in the codex (namely a consistent invulnerable save and high numbers of wounds) and they are fairly cheap.
The clawed fiends are all about brute force - I personally think they excel as basically fast grotesques. Thanks to clawed fiends it is possible to have an army with a lot of "bruiser" style units in a force which are very difficult to shift with close combat or shooting.
Certainly a foot/WWP based force would benefit immensely from a couple clawed fiends, but if oyu are just bolting on a beastmaster unit onto a mechanised force (or hybrid that leans towards mech) the cheaper beasts will generally be the superior option due to their cost alone.