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  1. #1
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    A few questions for constructing a 1,000 point list

    Hello everyone,

    Now that I'm back for break I'm going to whip out my Orks (they've been a long-time side project). I've played with them a little bit in the past but haven't had a whole lot of success with them. Anyways, I had a few questions:

    1. What is generally "better" in a 1,000 point setting, a huge squad of Stormboyz or a huge squad of Kommandos? What I'm thinking is something like 20 Stormboyz + Nob/PK/BP for 280 points versus 15 Kommandos + Boss Snikrot for 235 points. The advantages for the Stormboyz would be more numbers (15 to 20) for more damage, as well as better movement with jump packs. However, the Kommandos are 45 points cheaper and with Snikrot they can come in on any board edge for maximum carnage. For the purposes of this question, assume that the two units would be fulfilling a somewhat similar role of a fast movement/hard hitting CC unit.

    2. Can a Biker Warboss work well at 1,000 points, particularly without other Bikes? I've been reading through the HQ entries and for 125 points you can get a Warboss with T6, bike movement, and a power klaw. That's something like 5 Strength 10 attacks from a long ways away, and would be great in conjunction with Kommandos or Stormboyz! He's an IC so he could hide behind vehicles to not be shot or be attached to Stormboyz.

    3. Which is generally more effective as a direct comparison, 4 Shoota Trukks or 2 Shoota Battlewagons? They come to roughly the same amount of points (with the upgrades I elected, such as including Deffrollas, it comes to 585 points versus 608 points). Keep in mind I would like maximum dakka and also need some anti-vehicle

    As you can tell, I'm trying to construct a 1,000 point list that incorporates Shoota vehicles and either Kommandos or Stormboyz with a Biker Warboss. I've never really used any of these units so I could use some advice Thanks!

    /tc/


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  3. #2
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    First tip with Orks is don't do a shooty army. Only Killer-kans are good at shooting with their BS3. If you're taking Shootas with Nobs then go for kombi-burnas and also go with burna boys too, tons of flamers and if you don't use the flamer in the shooting phase it counts as a powerfist in cc (i think).

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheShad0w View Post
    First tip with Orks is don't do a shooty army. Only Killer-kans are good at shooting with their BS3. If you're taking Shootas with Nobs then go for kombi-burnas and also go with burna boys too, tons of flamers and if you don't use the flamer in the shooting phase it counts as a powerfist in cc (i think).
    Can you please explain what a "shooty army" is then, and why it doesn't work for Orks? From what I've read and heard, 20 Boyz-strong Shoota Wagons (i.e. Shoota Boyz in a Battlewagon for drive-bys) is a very viable strategy. I don't know where else you're getting this impression about having a shooting-heavy army, I'd like some clarification if possible. And also, I'm trying to stay away from Kans; I don't really feel like doing a Kan Wall (too many models to move by foot), so that's probably out of the question.

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    I agree with TheShad0w shooty armies for orks are not very effective mainly because of their BS2 also if they have a shoota they can't cause as much damage in assualt which is generally the main idea of orks. However I do normally include just 1 unit for holding a home objective, a little harder to kill than orks.
    You can do a shooty army but it's just that non shooty armies are generally more effective.

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    A shooty ork army consists of ork boyz with shootas, nobs with shootas/kombi shootas and various other units that can take template weapons but the player choosing a roll dice to shoot option instead. Orks are crap at shooting, with BS5 they are hitting on 5s and most of the time you will be missing. It's much better to go with slugga and choppa with several rokkit launchers, you get to start shooting at 12", you can fire missiles off every turn due to them being assault 1 and when you assault you get to add the pistol cc weapon combo to your number of attacks. With nobs if you do give them a shoota, then make it a kombi skorcha. I didn't get the impression you were going to do a shooting heavy army, i just figured it best to point out not to do one. Although what do you mean by shoota trukks/wagons? Do you mean the vehicle or the models inside?

    If you don't like the idea of moving a lot of models by foot then don't do an ork army. You either do a massive green tide army with a few bigs units for some extra punch and to distract the other player from the wall of green approaching, or you do small units in vehicles so you can take more of the ork's nastier units.
    Last edited by TheShad0w; December 22nd, 2010 at 13:17.

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    LO Zealot greggles's Avatar
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    I completely disagree. The orks are one of the best shooting armies! Most people discount them because they have to roll a 5 to hit. What they don't realize is the utter and complete bucket of dice slaughter you get to roll. A group of 29 shoota boyz, rolls 58 dice at 18 inches. That out distances a group of tactical marines, which generally will only get 1 shot at 24, or 2 at 12. (29 shoota boyz is almost the same cost as 10 tactical marines).

    The same 10 marines will need 3's to hit, but only roll 10 dice at 24", or 20 dice at 12 inches. And if the marines are shooting at 12 inches, they're getting assaulted the next round! One of the reasons orks are so successful is because they get to roll buckets of dice. The more dice you get to roll, the greater the probability you're going to utterly obliterate something.

    If you do a lot of research, and dig through all the math hammer, you basically come up with the numbers of the following.

    (@ 12 inches)
    30 slugga boyz, shooting then charging.
    10.99 dead marines

    30 shoota boyz, shooting then charging
    10.33 dead marines

    But then you have to remember, these #'s are based off the shooting range of 12 for the slugga boyz. The shoota boyz would get an additional round of shooting (18 inches vs 12), and kill another 3-4 marines.

    This also ignores how flexible a group of shoota boyz are. They can keep out of other units threat ranges, they can still waarg. They gain 1 shooting attack and 6 inches, but only lose 1 close range attack. They don't lose wounds due to fearless (if firing at range).

    This of course just pointing out the default boyz....shooty armies also tend to use lots of loota's, Boom Guns, Battle Wagons, Killa Kan's...etc.

    Having played about 15 games now, I've found slugga boyz to be useful only in trukk assaults. In all other situations, the shoota boyz have been better (battle wagon, or foot). Generally if the slugga boyz are going to kill something in the assault, so are the shoota boyz....just the shoota boyz have the flexibility to be useful out of an assault, and flexible enough to adapt to a changing battlefield.

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    LO Zealot mynameisgrax's Avatar
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    Greggles is correct, Orks are fantastic at shooting. What they lack in aim, they more than make up for with their ridiculous number of shots. Remember, the more dice you throw, the better. Even though 30 shots with BS 2 and 15 shots with BS 4 both usually result in 10 hits, keep in mind that the unit with 30 shots CAN hit 30 times. The most hits a unit with 15 shots can get is only 15.

    Shoota boyz, lootas, big gunz kannons, and Killa Kan grotzookas are all fantastic shooting units. As for the original questions:

    1. Both units are terrible at that point level. Both Stormboyz and Kommandos are as vulnerable as normal boyz, for twice the cost. At low point levels, you need to spend most of your points on boyz, grots, nobz, and powerklaws.

    2. Warbosses are only effective if you can move them around quickly. I like using them either in squads of bikes, nob bikers, or in units in vehicles. I've tried him on a bike with a unit that's on foot, but I find the extra toughness isn't really worth the points unless you're getting a bonus to movement out of it as well. It's up to you.

    3. I prefer 20 shoota boyz in a battlewagon. 11-12 shoota boyz isn't really quite enough to be that effective at shooting, and the trukks add easy killpoints for your opponent. I'd rather put them in battlewagons, or else run 30 on foot.
    "Any job worth doing, is worth doing with a powerklaw."
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