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As simple as the title says. I ran my first squad of hellions in a game today. And I really liked the way they performed! I love that they have hit and run, that they shoot awesome, that they are fast, and that they are S4 in close combat!
All in all a very decent hard hitting counter assault unit. Best kept in reserve and used to pounce on unsuspecting enemies at their weakest point.
Check out my blog for a more detailed report.
So, I really did like them, but now the question would be, should I make them troops? I am finding it hard to justify the loss of my archon within the list, because he is just so killy!... but I am inclined to try out a list with the baron, or heamonculi and WWP to get the most out of the units.
As for the unis size I only took 10. And was able to milk their effectiveness (it also helped that my opponent had no clue what they were capable of, and only realized it once they were wading through a blob squad. I dont think I would ever take 20 (too many points, too unweildy) but I think I would run 12-14 in a heartbeat. As for upgrades, I took the helliarch for the ld boost and kept the free venom blade as they are past enough to pick their fights. I might consider an agonizer we will see.
I find this to be very interesting. I really want to like Hellions. They have good shooting with the pods and two S4 attacks in CC is nice (especially if you get a favorable drug roll). Their price isn't out of line either (I wish scourge were the same price). They have some interesting HnR rules with the stunclaw.
The Baron should probably be a 0-1 tellion-like squad upgrade. He has some nice rules for the prices and the stealth and dangerous reroll is pretty nice. But I don't like him not having anything that negates armor saves. Almost makes you need to forgo the stun claw for a helliarch/agonizer combo. I don't think he is worth the HQ slot loss when there are so many more versatile HQ slot choices.
The thing that concerns me is the 5+ save. That means just about every basic shooting weapon will kill these guys with AP5. While they can eventually get a FNP, I find fnp to be a mixed bag with T3 units.
I look forward to hearing more reports of how they perform for you. I could see these being a late game deepstike objective grabber with the baron. A way to threaten an objective against a forward pushing army that leaves a basic troop on its back objective.
I tell you when I read the codex this was the first thing I wanted to try. A hellion based army.
So lets just say you have 6 squads of 10 guys.
For 960 points you get an army that moves 12 inches and can fire their assault 2. So 120 shots, 80 hit, 40 cause saves regardless of toughness.
Combine this with an army of things like:
3 squads of Trueborns (4 with blasters) in venoms with 2 SC (move 12inches disembark, shoot blasters) great anti-mech.
Jetbikes (with blasters or blood vanes)- Ram em or shoot the vehicles
Razorwing Jetfighters (4 large template missiles, 2 Dissies, & 1 Splinter Cannon)- nothing kills more infantry turn 1
Thats a crazy amount of T1 firepower that can destroy an enemy before he can even have a turn.
I thought about using them as combo with shooter in raider. During the approach they shield the raider ( antigravity too. Same height) , when close enough they assault and then hit and run during opponents turn. So the front team is busy in cc.
- - - For the 5+ save I though deploying them with an haemy. First turn it detach and leave with pain token to the hellions.
Initially I though squad of 5 in front of a raider.
Last edited by ltaesch; December 30th, 2010 at 12:29.
It is an insane amount of firepower but how do you plan to handle more than 2 tanks? It is seriously lacking on AT.
That said it would completely dominate a horde army or a list with very few vehicles.
IG Best Gen 1st overall of 10 DE 4th overall of 6
Eldar 3rd Overall/Best General of 26--2nd Overall/Best General of 7--1st Overall/Best General of 11
I've run hellions as a major hitting in most of my games with great effectiveness. I feel that in smaller units you don't need the baron as much. I on the other hand run the squad at 19 strong with no upgrades and the Baron. I've yet to be disappointed. The Baron himself is pretty badass with his own shadowfield, the bonus to deploying first and stealth, my god stealth is useful! Not only do you get steal but a re-roll of dangerous terrain! I've not lost a hellion yet to DT. Idk about you but I'm always going to take the two, if anything its for the cheap and useful HQ and badassness.
Nids 2500pts and Breeding!
Yeah, i'm not sure I would run more than 1 decent sized Hellion squad in a Baron army. Larger Hellion squads begged to be burned with flamers, the footprint of the squad is just too big.
That being said, I like Hellions as is, as Fast Attack choices. The Baron is nice for getting an already good unit into that coveted scoring Troops slot. Honestly, jump infantry with H&R as troops is just silly good. Not sure if Hellions make good replacements for Wyches, but they have their own strengths.
Moving the Hellions to Troops also frees up my Fast Attack for the deadly and overlooked Beast Masters!
Stab it, slash it, bite, tank shock and smash it. If that fails, shoot it.
Have any of you tried the helliarch with a stunclaw? Sounds good on paper but if u pull out a tough IC in a 5 man group the IC probably has a good chance of kicking your butt unless you take an agonizer and roll good I think a tough marine IC will probbaly win and the next turn u will probbaly be within charge range of the original unit. Just wondering if it looks useful at all to spend the points on it?
The Baron is probably the best bargain in the entire codex. The PGL and Shadowfeild alone on him are great. He is Str -6- on the charge. Stealth.
A Haemi for token is probably a good investment for larger squads if your army relies upon them. Then add the Haemi to a squad that can use the extra wounds.
Hellions are also one of the hardest hitting units that DE have if you shoot then assault.
right the consensus seems to be to larger squas rather than MSU .
But I am interested to see what do you use the with , in combo ?
do they go alone ?
are they used to pre-cede a raider mounted shooter squads ? ( for screening and H/R)
to neutralise Heavy weapons teams ?
so combo and usage are the questions...