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have any of you used grotesques under the new codex? from what i see they seem more effective than before, but they require a haemonculus to make sure they don't kill themselves. And they have to come out of a WWP.
anyone got any comments?
thanks in advance!
I have not used the grotesques but I think they have been outclassed in the elite slot by Incubi if you want CC or Trueborn if you want shooty
Option 1) 4 Grotesques in Raider with Haemonculi
Option 2) 6 Incubi in Raider with Haemonculi
Objective: Turbo-boost (or use sails) raider towards opponent Turn 1 and Assault second turn.
So heres the rub. Since grotesques have 3W and T5 they are not easily instant killed. Unfortunately common weapons in the game, "the mighty boltgun" wounds on a 5 and the only save the grotesques get is a FnP. Now looking at incubi, the boltgun wounds on a 3 and incubi get 3+ saves and FnP (by the Haemonculi). I would argue option 2 is more durable against common weapons like the boltgun which you will find more common than heavy weapons. I also find my Incubi are getting into CC before my opponent can shoot his heavy weapons at my incubi since I have fleet. Since Incubi are also 13 points cheaper I rock 9 incubi in a Raider with a haemonculi (whereas you only get 4 grotesques). So I'm not inclined to play grotesques any time soon.
The only thing I feel like I'm missing is S6 grotesques (7 with Urien & 2 pain point) makes them nice vs mech. But if thats something you need then choose 4 blasters on Trueborn in a transport
Last edited by mrvegas; December 31st, 2010 at 12:28.
I have used 3 Grotz with a heamy in a raider (with an aberration and liquifier) in two games now. And in both games those guys sucked up most of the enemies firepower and then held their own in close combat... much to my amazement. They have found a place in my army for sure (when I am not running the incubi) that T5 goes a loong way... especially if you place them in cover... and once they get the fearless they are not going anywere. I have yet to try them out against a horde of orks but I have a feeling that they will do rather well against them considering their high toughness and their good number of attacks and the wound allocation shenannigans.
Grotesques are also one of the few direct counters DE have to mechanised IG - namely unless the guard player devotes all their melta weapons and every other gun they can find at them the grotesques will keep coming.
A rough guesstimation says you'd need something like 6 multilasers just to drop 1 grotesque in the open - thats pretty tough - and even more heavy bolters due to its lower strength.
A scissorhand (just 1) aberration will wound consistently just about anything, throw in a haemonculous ancient (this is one of the few tiems i think the better statlien of the ancient is far and away superior) and you have a stupidly durable unit that will mulch through most close combat units (mostly its only the super CC units that will be able to out damage them) - even if it involves merely tying them up with a wall of wounds.
Last edited by The_Outsider; December 31st, 2010 at 16:59.
i thought they seemed good, though personally i wouldn't stick them in a raider, too easy to blow up. the wound allocation shenannigans i'm already used to it (playing ork nobz makes it fun) my friend took a look and agreed with me that they are rather nice, to be fair they probably would give nobz a beating, depending on their load out. i think the idea of them emerging from a portal suits me best though gives them a better chance of getting into cc. I just hope they do 'new' models for them then i may put them in my army, but i had better get used to playing the DE again though that should not take too long...
Yep, Abberation with Scissorhand is a mean, mean model. 6 attacks, 7 on the charge with rerollable 3+ to wound anything... that's a facebeater right there. Well, not so simple. Anything T5 or lower he'll get a reroll to wound via poisoned weapon. If that Haemonculus joins the unit and they get 2 pain tokens it's lights out for anyone they charge. I could see them working against Mech IG as well, but it would be tricky and you would need to have back up AT to thin out their Chimera ranks.
Stab it, slash it, bite, tank shock and smash it. If that fails, shoot it.
Even if they did those guardsmen really won't keep grotesques at bay for long - the crucial element here is few models in the same weight class as grotesques have I4 or higher, this means grotesques will simply receive less and less return attacks. Depending on how many hidden ppowerfists there are (they only matter because they ignore FnP) a grotesque unit will chomp through guardsmen in short order.
A rough guesstimation says that 4 grotesques (including scissorhand aberration) and a haemonculus with scissorhand will do 11 ish wounds before saves when not charging. Factor in any liquifier guns and charging and they'll probably remove a good 25 models before any return attacks.
Last edited by The_Outsider; January 1st, 2011 at 17:54.
To reply to your point mr vegas, that's why the haemy accompanying them (unless it's urien who's hard enough by himself) should be at the back of the unit, unless he's shattershard-sniping a hidden powerfist. It's not like he's going to contribute much that the grotesques can't accomplish themselves. Think of him like IG players do their lord commissar-led blob squads, the lord commissar doesn't want to be in combat, his death renders the unit useless.
Assuming grotesques are on terminator-size bases and you have a reasonable squad size once you hit combat, it shouldn't be too difficult to ensure the haemy is never in b2b with anyone.
If I've replied, i've probably used Italics...
www.goodbyeboltgun.blogspot.com - Some of my stuff.