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I have seen a lot of comments here on LO and around the web declaring Drazhar as overcosted and useless, I disagree and to this end earlier today I did some rough* math-hammering to see what characters (typically special characters by nature) close to his cost he can and cannot beat.
I presumed Drazhar charged unless the enemy can move over 6" a turn (not factoring in fleet as that usually won't change anything) as any experienced DE player will tell you denying the charge of a fleeting unit that just jumped out of a raider (and now, venom) is very hard to stop.
In these matchups both Drazhar and his enemy are unwounded and Drazhar has no pain tokens.
*When I say rough I mean it, I didn't particularly bother to work out the percentages exactly, I only rounded. For those that have the odd .5% i've rounded up. This is not meant to be the be-all and end all of math-hammering, merely a guide to give you an rough idea of what Drazhar is capable of.
This shall be broken up into sections for easier formatting.
I will post some thoughts and my conclusion at the end.
So, if Drazhar charged:Code:Enemy Result Notes Calgar win Drazhar takes 2 wounds Sicarius win Only standard power weapon used, Drazhar takes 1 wound Tigiruis win Tigiruis uses force dome and quickening, Drazhar takes 1 wound Lysander loss Lysander takes maybe 2 wounds, but more likely 1 Njarl win None Ragnar win Ragnar counter-attacks, Drazhar takes 2 wounds GUO loss GUO with all upgrades, GUO takes maybe 1 wound Typhus win Drazhar takes 1 wound, assuming a roll of 3 for daemon weapon Kharn win None Ahriman win Drazhar takes 1 wound Creed & Kell win Company command is as base minus character upgrades, Drazhar takes no damage Fuegan win Drazhar takes 2 wounds Karandaras win If using claw Drazhar takes no damage, if using chainsword Drazhar takes no damage Eldrad win Drazhar takes 1 wound Jain Zar win Drazhar takes 2 wounds Maugan Ra win Drazhar takes 2 wounds Asurmen win Drazhar takes 2 wounds. This matchup is entirely dependant upon how many invulnerable saves Asurmen makes Ghazghkull win Drazhar takes 2 wounds. It is a very close match and could go either way Living saint unknown I did not work it out as faith is such a huge factor here. Kazarmov win/loss This comes down to if Kazarmov's re-roll hits and if he fails 2 of the 3 invulnerable saves Drazhar forces on first turn GKGM win/loss Icon of just + whatever trimmings you want. This is entirely dependant on how you interpret the GK's force weapon rules. Follow rulebook and Drazhar wins, follow DH entry and Grandmaster wins Azrael win/loss Entirely depends if the sword of secret's re-roll hits, if it does Drazhar loses, if it doesn't Azrael loses Hive tyrant loss Tyrant as base & armoured shell. Tyrant takes 1 wound Swarmlord loss Swarmlord takes maybe 1 wound Nightbringer loss Nightbringer unharmed Deceiver loss Deceiver unharmed
If nobody charged:Right, I think that is it.Code:Enenemy Result Notes Barroth win Drazhar takes 1 or 2 wounds Lash DP loss Daemon princes takes 1 wound, 2 at a push Bloodthirster loss Bloodthirster is unharmed Lord of Change loss Lord of change takes 1 wound due to 3+ invulnerable save Astaroth win Drazhar takes 1 or 2 wounds Mephiston loss Mephiston takes 1 wound, Drazhar fails transfixing gaze
Number crunching this has given me some interesting results, primarily drazhar relies heavily upon striking first, having a higher weapon skill and murderous assault. Start taking away these advantages and he really starts to struggle.
The lack of murderous assault coupled with the high weapon skill of the monstrous creatures is too much for him to handle and he will lose nearly all the time. The only models that equalled him for weapon skill was Kharn and the other phoenix lords, here kharn's 5+ invulnerabe save was his death and the other phoenix lords lost out mostly down to murderous assault providing Drazhar with at least 3 hits (which at S6 are all likely to wound).
Lysander's 3+ invulnerable save is soley what saved him, otherwise it is likely they would've wiped each other out due to the thunderhammer making Drazhar I1 after taking the initial wound(s).
The majority toughness 4 proved to be a fairly large deciding factor as well, wounding consistently on 2+ (and ahead of his enemies) gives Drazhar an extreme advantage.
Overall Drazhar's lack of invulnerable save only mattered against the monstrous creatures (he would still lose even if he had a 4+ invulnerable, he would simply do more damage) and the SM/CSM heroes - even with a 5+ invulnerable save drazhar could walk away from a lot of them unharmed.
Thoughts/Comments/"lol stfu ur maths iz rong" welcome.
Last edited by The_Outsider; January 11th, 2011 at 17:53.
Drazhar is definitely a beast in CC, and murderous assault makes him great at taking on IC's. For tournament play I'm not sure his cost/benefit ratio is as good as some of our other choices though.
Drahzar is good against both rank and file MEQs and ICs, but for his price I could have 7 incubi w/Klaivex in a raider (which would be better against MEQs). Another drawback is that almost all IC targets I see in tournaments are either A)not worth his time or B)buried in units I want to avoid like the plague with my incubi.
Some examples (I'm sure you can tell which category each falls into): Pedro Kantor with Assaut termies, Gate Librarian with 10 regular termies, jetbike seer council, mephiston (not an IC), Sanguinary Priests.
For casual play I'm probably gonna try out this monstrosity though:
Vect (yes I can fit 846 points into one model)
1000 points even
Last edited by Bugs_n_Orks; January 11th, 2011 at 17:04. Reason: smilies...ugh
The meat things seek to destroy ourselves. They hunt us as we hunt them but they are weak and uncertain. Bring them understanding of the power of ourselves through our strength and their fear. The inferior flesh will be entirely destroyed, all fragments will be smashed. Ourselves will fight to the last, all weak flesh must be consumed
Sanguinory guard with priest is another fine example, he murders the guard and let no retreat kill the priest (if he survive it doesn't matter, drazhar can split attacks and blend the remaining 1/2 guard and the priest).
Whether he is worth it in a tournament? That is entirely dependant upon points level, comp and the missions involved. In a no comp rulebook missions only tournamt at 1500 I think he'd shine simply because he shakes up a lot of default setups people take for assault - suddenly having your IC not strike because of darting strike means drazhar can act as a force mulitplier which is something rarely seen.
His lack of grenades is unlikely to make a huge difference as such targets he goes after are unlikely to be hiding actually in terrain - but i'll admit if they are Drazhar is a lot less killy when he cannot strike first. He will more or less cut through squad after squad in min/maxed SM forces and once he gets FnP he basically becomes immune to your standard trooper and weapons.
In the last game I used him he ate through 3 full tactical squads before getting shot to death by some combi-plasma sternguard. In that scenario he killed enough of the enemy to require the entire SM battle line faltering to go deal with him.
I love Drazhar. I've only played a handful of games since the new codex came out and i've run Drazhar every time, He still hasn't died. His squad has been wiped out but he would end up routeing the opponents on his own.
I believe the main reason Drazhar costs so much is because he takes the best Ground unit we have and makes them better, He makes them fearless and he gives them all the bonuses that a normal Klaivex would.
Sure in a 1 on 1 fight with Lelith or Some other hardcore hero, he might get his heart handed to him. It's important to remember that he doesn't deploy on his own, he is deployed with a hardcore team of incubi. Do the math-hammer for that and things may be alot differant.
Personally i'd run him with the minimum 3 incubi, just to act as damage soakers and to deal those extra wounds required to cripple a squad - once these lot get feel no pain only power weapons stop them.It's important to remember that he doesn't deploy on his own, he is deployed with a hardcore team of incubi. Do the math-hammer for that and things may be alot differant.
For the sake of curiosity lets say drazhar and 3 incubi charge Pedro and 7 sternguard (all wounds are after saves).
Drazhar strikes against pedro to shut him down and stop him flattening the incubi. He deals 2 wounds.
The incubi then strike agaisnt the sternguard and deal 3 wounds.
The 4 sternguard hit back against the incubi and deal 1 wound.
Pedro then thumps Drazhar dealing 1 wound. Pedro and crew lose combat, but they pass their LD check due to stubborn
Round 2: Drazhar slices and dices Pedro, big D and his incubi now have feel no pain.
The remaining 2 incubi deal 1 or 2 wounds (lets say they get lucky and deal 2).
The last 2 sternguard hit the incubi (no longer getting +1 attack as Pedro is dead) and bounce off the incubi's armour. They then hold.
Round 3: Drazhar cuts the sternguard in half and he nets the unit their second pain token.
From this point on any assaulting this unit will do will pretty much remove a unit as drazhar is now better suiting to using his demiklaves as two weapons to get a whopping 7 strength 5 attacks on the charge - now onslaught starts to really shine.
does this mean that an incubi squad with Klavex (who has onslaught) get the benefits of the klavex's onslaught and then roll another dice if the 1st one rolled a 6?
Yep, and on top of that, any time Drazhar rolls a 6 for his armor save he gets a counter attack back. He truely is a Dark Eldar God of war.
question Drazhar vs Scorpion Phoenix lord? who'd win?
If nobody charged drazhar is still likely to blender karandaras before he does any damage (using his chaisnword is a total waste of time and the powerfist wastes his I7).