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  1. #1
    Senior Member MrBenis's Avatar
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    Repairing our codex, one unit at a time, part V

    Hot on the heels of our interesting Support platform thread comes the next one.

    As always, these are the rules
    Okay so the general structure of these threads is to address our BAD units first, then move on to the better ones. Please always read every post to avoid repetition. Please also try to discuss only the unit in question specificly. Referencing other units is OK, but should be limited to times when the other unit directly overlaps the target unit of this thread. Please do not adjust the units points cost. Let's bring our boys UP TO the points we're being charged, rather than lower them for the benefit of more units elsewhere. We're an elite army, right? Let's be expensive and ridiculously deadly, then.

    These threads will work in two stages. First we brainstorm about the flaws as we perceive them, and provide a wide list of changes as we feel is appropriate. Phase two is taking the most supported ideas, compiling them together and finally arguing over any critical additions to the changelist.
    Today we talk about warpspiders. They're not terrible, but they certainly aren't seen very much. Let's break them down.

    To directly quote their unit entry in my MWG link;
    + 3+ armour save is a welcome addition
    + Can be very fast (12” movement + 2D6 warp jump)
    + Powerful weaponry
    + Exarch
    + Exarch weapon options are pretty decent
    + In terms of harrassmemt these guys can really be a thorn in your opponents side
    + Can handle anything from light infantry, to medium tanks.
    + Can literally teleport in, fire off 20+ shots and then teleport back out of sight the ENTIRE game
    + Pretty cheap when compared to other units in their unit type(in comparison to most jump infantry)

    - Very risky second jump can cause up to 7 deaths a game (if your unlucky)
    - Guns my pack a punch but they have NO ap meaning your relying on number of wounds.
    - Exarch powers are totally redundant
    - Close combat isn’t as bad as other units…but its still pretty bad
    - Guns may struggle to destroy tanks due to –1 to the damage chart
    - Short Ranged Weaponry
    I feel that's a pretty nice summary. Saved me some typing too.

    How this unit can be improved, so that we'll actually see them fielded more often;
    Exchange the exarch powers (yea like this wasn't totally obvious) to powers that grant Stealth and Infiltrate USR. Make their weapons rending (woohoo potential s15 hit on tanks! No armour saves!).

    Implementing these 2 simple changes deals with almost all of the negatives on the list.

    What does everyone else think?

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  3. #2
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    I would take them if they were AP 6. or infact give them the option of switching their wepons with flamers for free. I would LOVE rending but I'm not sure how OP that would be.

  4. #3
    Senior Member MrBenis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fombat View Post
    I would take them if they were AP 6. or infact give them the option of switching their wepons with flamers for free. I would LOVE rending but I'm not sure how OP that would be.
    One of their hidden bonuses is the fact they have AP- as this lets them glance transports to death, while surrounding, thus causing everything inside to die for free. Switching their weapons for flamers would be interesting, but I have heard through the grapevine that the second new aspect from forgeworld may or may not be a flamer-jumppack unit.

    I don't think rending would be that powerful at all. A full squad with double exarch guns shoots only 22 times, at 17% rending thats only 4 rending hits. Statistically average anyway, there's nothing stopping every shot from rending, just as there's nothing stopping every CQC attack from harlequins from rending either. 12" range guns will make a big difference.
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    Senior Member Gedderz's Avatar
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    I think one issue with Warp Spiders is not so much the uni its self but how it fits in army lists. In most 5th ed eldar list builds they dont fit that well.
    "Should take you a while though because of your sloth like pace"
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    Senior Member niraco's Avatar
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    AP6, realible and usable exarch powers, non crap S6AP1 one shot weapon (make it S8 AP1 or S6 AP1 Assault 2 Lance). About what gedderz say is because non mech lists are ussualy bad. And exarch powers are not awesome. but spiders are one of the decent ones (meaning nonuseless). I was wondering why we do not talk before the spiders about rangers or dark reapers or phoenix lords.
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  7. #6
    404: Title not found Acarna's Avatar
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    Well for a start, one of the Exarch powers is utterly redundant because they have Deep Strike anyway, which means the only reason to use it is if you want to use Deep Strike in a scenario that didn't allow it. To say that 'Exarch powers are not awesome' is slightly understating the problem. The other one is also more or less completely redundant since they are next to useless in combat anyway, so you don't really need the Hit and Run. Their weapons are good, but they need to be AP3 I think. I don't at all see the logic in making them Lance weapons though, that would be more or less pointless. S6 AP3 Assault 2 is good, that means they can have some anti-tank capabilities which is bolstered by their ability to get behind the tank for the vulnerable rear armour, and fluffwise they're not meant to be any good at killing anything except light tanks anyway. But the current situation with AP- makes them only really any good against horde enemies, and Orks at that. They would be feasible if they could kill Marines, because they can just about keep up with mech lists. I also think the Warp-killy rule should be changed to just double 1 or double 6, rather like Perils of the Warp.

    Their close combat abilities need to be bolstered as well, maybe they could have 2 Attacks or something similar. All of this would maybe see their points cost bumped up to 24 or 25 a man, but I think it'd be worth using them then.

    ~ Acarna
    Last edited by Acarna; January 13th, 2011 at 20:43.

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    Warp Spiders are pretty good, IMO. Just make their Exarch powers better - less chance of misjumps, or giving them the equivilent of skilled rider. AP 6 would be pretty great, too.

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    Senior Member MrBenis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niraco View Post
    I was wondering why we do not talk before the spiders about rangers or dark reapers or phoenix lords.
    I have seen dark reapers fielded more often than spiders. That said, rangers/reapers are up next. Phoenix lords will be left for some... later date... as people often suggest very large, sweeping rules changes that would be taken massively out of context if the preliminary work wasn't done first. In other words, suppose we decide that Reapers need a massive buff, and when it comes to talking about PL and specifically Maugan Ra and we give him the ability to make his aspect counts as troops choice.. could you image what your opponent would think if you were fielding 9 squads of what amounts to longfangs? Phoenix Lords from where I'm sitting stand to be game-changers in terms of how they should operate things. When I think of how a PL might arrive on a craftworld and then lead a massive host of its aspect to war, I don't think of 3 elites slots worth. I think 3 elites slots and 6 troops slots.
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  10. #9
    Member Titanium Commander's Avatar
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    Warp Spiders as they are now aren't too terrible. As Gedderz said Warp Spiders don't really fit in with mech Eldar, and yes, thier exarch powers are mostly useless and need to be changed,though the hit and run can be useful. However I think Warp Spiders on a whole would be alot better if the range of thier gun was 18" or even 24", though 18" is probably more balanced. I also think that the rule for thier jumps should be like Acarna said, double 1s or 6s. this would make them a viable choice for thier points.
    My Dice keep me in check

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    Senior Member Der_Kaiser's Avatar
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    I said in my Codex topic that it'd be pretty cool if deathspinners were template weapons rather than assault 2. Maybe make the Exarch's dual deathspinners rending. but in this case I'd keep the S6 AP-. I think it makes sense when you consider the guns are firing a monofilament web. I also want a Warp Spider Phoenix Lord.
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