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I'm just curious on what everyone's opinions of these two units are. Does anybody stop and think why they are choosing them or just because it looks "cool". My opinions:
Wyches provide a cheap solid haywire grenade assault.
Bloodbrides serve to tarpit, so take them in a group of 9 with shardnets.
Anything else in the codex can do other jobs better. Want to assault, and actually kill something, Incubi or Beastmasters spring to mind long before the females above. Yes they can assault a regular unit if there is nothing else to do, but when I put them in an army list it's primarily to perform one of the above tasks.
The reason why I'm thinking about this is I think my army lists need something to tie up walkers while the rest of the army takes out tanks and infantry. Walkers can be a real pain in the ass if you aren't prepared for them, and can be especially effective in tarpitting our assault units. Most people I play with don't use walkers, but some are thinking of changing up their armies to counter what I've been bringing to the table, and I want to be prepared.
I think your analysis basically sums it up haywire grenades are really nice because they kinda force your opponent to keep moving his mechs and most of the time that results in him not being able to fire all of his guns which is a good thing.
Well one big thing I've noticed people like about the wyches is the 4+ invul in cc, Top that with 2 attacks base due to pistol and cc weapon, 3 attacks on the charge. Then give them a pain point and they have feel no pain.
So with one pain point, They get 3 attacks on the charge, a 4+ invul in cc and a 4+ FnP save.
Really the only down side is if they get caught in the open and get shot, say good-bye to them then.
one of the more favorite units of mine is my Trueborn with cc weapons and pistols. They get one more attack then the wyches and they have 5+ armor no matter what, no 4+ invul in cc which is a downer but whatever. This unit is more about style than point efficiency.
Wyches are exactly as good as they were in 4th edition with one exception, they are cheaper. No more controversy over whether they have wych weapon effect all the time or when they were charged. With the hekatrix using an agonizer, they kill just as well as ever.
I think that the previous posts forget the fact that they also have combat drugs which are better overall in the latest edition. Paired with the duke, that gives you another chance to get the drug you want. I will say I do miss the 5 pt blasters I used to take. I don't make them more expensive with haywires. I have DL's in my list to deal with armor.
With all the deathstar units out there, wyches easily tarpit with the best of them. They do surprisingly well against thunder hammer termies also lasting several turns. It doesn't take to much effort to get my shard nets touching 3-4 termie models reducing them down to one attack each.
While the S3 is nothing to write home about, the killing power has always been in the agonizer. I find they last through the second CC so they aren't out in the open to get shot. So for fairly cheap points, you get a unit that does remarkably well in CC and is scoring. Head to head in CC with Incubi, the wyches will win because it doesn't matter about the power weapons and any agonizer wounds will kill an Incubi outright. A lot of the time, I don't need to fleet and fire off the splinter pistols before the charge. They are usually good for taking out 1-2 models before the charge.
I personally don't use bloodbrides because I like to have more scoring units. I think they are good but wyches are close enough in ability that I don't need to use them and use the elite slots for TB. I also stick the duke and an archon in 9 size wych squads. Coupled with the agonizer, there is plenty of killing power there.
The previous poster mentioned TB being better due to the 5+ save. Unfortunately, most saves will be against ap5 type of weapons so they will end up no better than the wyches when caught out in the open. The save just isn't really that great. I use my TB for the shooting weapons (SC's, DL's or blasters). I think that is where they excel, but each to their own.
I'm actually a huge fan of Bloodbrides with razorflails, but it is a tough sell to take them over Incubi. Their ability to fight off the things that would kill Incubi is maybe the best reason, as Incubi do not have assault grenades and power weapons take them apart. Plus, wyches prolly moreso than most units benefit from pain tokens the most.
Stab it, slash it, bite, tank shock and smash it. If that fails, shoot it.
I've been very impressed with the new wyches. The first pain token makes them very tar-pitty. I have taken to starting them with a haemy in their raider for just that reason. Giving the haemy 'ancient' and a proper weapon adds some proper killing power as well.
i agree with you here in some respects, bloodbrides do seem good on paper, but as has been mentioned when out in the open they die (wyches are better in that they are a troop choice so you can spend points elswhere i.e. on incubi). On the issue of grenades,the only way to get them is to stick an archon in there with the phantasm launcher- basically the old codex combo is still usefull if only to give them grenades.I'm actually a huge fan of Bloodbrides with razorflails, but it is a tough sell to take them over Incubi. Their ability to fight off the things that would kill Incubi is maybe the best reason, as Incubi do not have assault grenades and power weapons take them apart
anyway in my mind what are the incubi doing when they get sliced apart from power weapons?- mine in my last game (against CSM) never lost a single man at all, despite my opponent having plenty of power weapons- getting charged by termies is a bit of a bugger at the best of times. But when you are in cover with an archon in there with the grenade launcher.... you go first and to be fair since they got an extra attack it has increased ther effectiveness quite a bit. Lasty, sorry to put across any assumptons, but you have to charge with them- pick on a small unit or something you know you can kill quickly (in the meantime making sure you are out of the way when the enemy retaliate) and gain pain points. That way if you are lucky and your opponent is distracted by the rest of your army they will survive to kill plenty- or in my case, i by accident set up a trap where he had to charge me to even have a chance of winning as it was hmmm after his lord and escort bit the dust his deamons came down strange that my unit of wyches helped kill them i had forgot about them most of the game...
It generally boils down to this;
1) If it is a medium level assault unit (such as assault marines) wyches will tie it up forever and slowly grind them down.
2) If it is a proper, dedicated assault unit (say, terminators or harlequins or whatever) then bloodbrydes are the unit of choice - their higher damage output is sorely needed.
Bloodbrydes are what the old wyches should have been and a such you may find a lot of the older players prefer them as they are basically the same unit they are used to, except better in nearly every way.
In either of those assaults outsider, why would you want them over incubi or beastmasters?
Wyches/Bloodbrides are near half the price of Incubi. They put out more pure wounds so they are better vs units with very low saves like big nid and orks horde units. They are like Incubi but with a focus towards mass death rather than killing MEQs.
The other nice thing about them is that they are generally going to be locked in with the big fearless blobs but won't massacre marine units either. That makes it more likely they will still be in combat for the opponent's turn protecting them from return fire.
Oh and Wyches are scoring (!)
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