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  1. #1
    Senior Member Serbi's Avatar
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    Wracks vs Wyches

    So, when looking at the codex, and comparing units and such, there is one little debate which I'm never really sure how to swing on it.

    Wracks vs Wyches (assuming Wracks are a troops choice)

    So here are two example units to show how I'm thinking of tooling them up:

    Wracks x9
    Haemonculus w/ power weapon
    150 pts. (+ raider, kitted out however you like)

    Wyches x10
    upgraded Hekatrix w/ agoniser
    130 pts (+ raider, kitted out however you like)

    Pros of Wracks over wyches:
    Furious charge due to pain tokens means you get good synergy with their poison weapons.
    Will live longer vs ranged attacks and non-power weapons.
    Poison helps vs MEQ toughness enemies

    Pros of Wyches over Wracks:
    Combat Drugs
    Higher initiative
    Grenades
    Will live longer than Wracks in CC after they get a pain token.
    Pistols
    Fleet
    Better against power weapons


    Although the pros on the Wyches list is longer, I'm still not sure which one would be better to take in to CC against most armies. (I try to make my lists as all-comers list and not specialized vs specific opponents)

    I currently don't have Wracks of Wyches or really enough of an army to test this very well, so I don't have real-game experience to compare them.

    And as for the "It depends on the type of list you make" the list I'd be making is going to have 9 raiders and 3 ravagers and focus on speed and hitting the opponent however they can defend against it the least. (CC the shooters, shoot/kite their CC units, etc.)

    Nurgle, the freshmaker.



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  3. #2
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    You can't compare Wracks with an HQ to Wyches without one, that makes no sense, epecially since they cost different amount of points for the whole squad, what are you smoking? From the sound of what you want to design neither would be appropriate since you want to shoot and scoot.

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    Well while I agree that you can't really compare a squad with an HQ to one without, I don't agree that just because You're using a whole bunch of raiders, that you want to "shoot and skoot."

    I love the idea of Turbo Boosting those bad boys across the field and unleashing the full fury of the Dark Raiders In cc chaos. If thats the case I would Use Wyches over Wracks for one reason, Fleet of foot. Both have their pros and cons, But that one rule the Wyches have over the Wracks could be the differance in the list that you are putting together.

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    Well while I agree that you can't really compare a squad with an HQ to one without, I don't agree that just because You're using a whole bunch of raiders, that you want to "shoot and skoot."

    I love the idea of Turbo Boosting those bad boys across the field and unleashing the full fury of the Dark Raiders In cc chaos. If that's the case I would Use Wyches over Wracks for one reason, Fleet of foot. Both have their pros and cons, But that one rule the Wyches have over the Wracks could be the difference in the list that you are putting together.


    Stupid, double posting computer. lol
    Last edited by GodsWitness; January 24th, 2011 at 06:46.

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    Also to add that the wych squad has LD 9 and the Haemy has LD 8. The Haemy also is swinging his power weapon at S4. It isn't as good when you face plague marines, big bugs or other high T units. What you leave out is what the wracks are really good at and thats being able to run with liquidfiers.

  7. #6
    Senior Member False Son's Avatar
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    Also worth noting is the equipment options for wyches. This is DE's best unit for haywire grenades, which sometimes you need on things like monoliths, and will enable you to take down walkers if you're lucky. The wych weapons are a big deal too, depending on your roll on the combat drugs table. Most importantly, Wracks are dependent on taking haemis... so it's up to you.
    Stab it, slash it, bite, tank shock and smash it. If that fails, shoot it.

  8. #7
    Senior Member Serbi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asdrubal View Post
    You can't compare Wracks with an HQ to Wyches without one, that makes no sense, epecially since they cost different amount of points for the whole squad, what are you smoking? From the sound of what you want to design neither would be appropriate since you want to shoot and scoot.
    It seems perfectly reasonable to compare them when the points costs between the two groups is only 20. And being that I would be using both squads as melee units, that also means it's valid to compare them.

    And what are you smoking? You didn't even read what I said, because I very clearly state that I want to hit the enemy where I have the advantage, like hitting their shooty units with melee units. So of course I would need melee units for that.






    Other than that, great points guys. I typically run the armies I make with only a few key upgrades so I can run more models than most people, and it's been working pretty good for me thus far. Maybe that isn't the best way to run Deldar, however.
    Nurgle, the freshmaker.



  9. #8
    Karrot Dialysis karantalsis's Avatar
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    This was a big debate for me when putting together my ourney list and as such I crunched numbers and play tested extensively. To whit I submit the conclusion that wracks tend to be better. I'll justify that below, but first I'll make a couple of key points which tip the balance from the exact configurations given above to a comparrison of wracks and wyches more generally, as I don't hink either configuration given by the OP is optimal for wither unit. Additionally I will point out that I take a Haemie for other reasons so wracks are always troop sin my lists. Even if you don't the cheap, cheap nature of the haemie means that this comparrison should inform your decision to take one, rather than that neccesesity altering this comparrison. Anyway, onwards.

    First thing to note is that I am making comparissons assuming the yches DON'T have a pain token, because once they do things change, but at that point they will ahve taken more damage than an equivalent unit of wracks and the wracks will have furious charge which changes things up again.

    In CC after round 1 wyches and wracks are roughly equal in damage output and damage taken, although wracks do better against tough opponents and wyches do better at whatever their wyche weapons are designed to kill. This takes account of the difference in initiative by the way, without it wyches come out worse. During round 1 it is a bit messier as wyches get grenades and that can be useful when charging things in cover, so are better in combat that round, although they are actually worse at assaulting troops in cover much of the time (for reasons I will mention shortly, promise). The other important difference is the Wyche ability to fleet and their drugs. Typically drugs don't do anything as good as giving them a pain token (all other options are worse), however that 1 in 6 games when they get one they then become stronger than the wracks. The rest of the drugs don't do enough to swing things in their favour. Fleet however is very good and means that for a purely close assault army (i.e. one that ignores shooting almost entirely, asides form the free stuff you get on raiders, pistols etc.) wyches are probably slightly better for mobility reasons.

    Now back to something I mentioned earlier, assaulting troops in cover. Wyches have grenades, which are nice, but wracks have Liquifier Guns. Hose down a unit with two of these before the assault, negating cover and (often) armour then charge. Enemy casualties overall will be higher and your own about the same as if you charged them in the open. The liquifier gun is really what swings this in favour of the Wracks overall as a flamer is a wonderful piece of wargera and one that ignores space marine armour 50% of the time is a wonderful toy indeed. Especially as you can take two. As to the wyches taking an agoniser, take an acothyst and give them one too.

    Set ups I have most often comapred, both in raiders naturally:

    10 Wyches
    2 Hydragauntlets
    Hekatrix, Agoniser

    10 Wracks
    2 Liquifier Guns
    Acothyst, Agoniser

    Both these units are 150 points, plus raider.

  10. #9
    Orks_n_Bugs Bugs_n_Orks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karantalsis View Post
    10 Wracks
    2 Liquifier Guns
    Acothyst, Agoniser
    While I'd def take the acothyst for the Ld boost, keep in mind that he doesn't get the +1A for 2 CCWs with the agonizer, so to me it seems a bit pricey for what it does. I'd just keep him with his base equipment probably.
    The meat things seek to destroy ourselves. They hunt us as we hunt them but they are weak and uncertain. Bring them understanding of the power of ourselves through our strength and their fear. The inferior flesh will be entirely destroyed, all fragments will be smashed. Ourselves will fight to the last, all weak flesh must be consumed

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bugs_n_Orks View Post
    keep in mind that he doesn't get the +1A for 2 CCWs with the agonizer, so to me it seems a bit pricey for what it does. I'd just keep him with his base equipment probably.
    Why not? Its a one handed close combat weapon.

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