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Vypers.Okay so the general structure of these threads is to address our BAD units first, then move on to the better ones. Please always read every post to avoid repetition. Please also try to discuss only the unit in question specificly. Referencing other units is OK, but should be limited to times when the other unit directly overlaps the target unit of this thread. Please do not adjust the units points cost. Let's bring our boys UP TO the points we're being charged, rather than lower them for the benefit of more units elsewhere. We're an elite army, right? Let's be expensive and ridiculously deadly, then.
These threads will work in two stages. First we brainstorm about the flaws as we perceive them, and provide a wide list of changes as we feel is appropriate. Phase two is taking the most supported ideas, compiling them together and finally arguing over any critical additions to the changelist.Okay. So something I would do is make these guys function slightly different. They remain what they are currently with the following changes;Pros & Cons
+ Super fast
+ 4+ Cover saves when moving fast make it very durable in the right conditions
+ Can take nearly any weapon in the Eldar armoury (minus the HEAVY weapons such as D cannon etc)
+ Nice and cheap
+ Can take a under-hull mounted shuriken cannon
+ Comes with a under-hull mounted twin-linked shuriken catapult
+ Can perform any number of tasks on the battlefield
- Armour 10 all around and open topped make it very vulnerable to too much fire
- Low BS means you are going to be missing 50% of all your shooting
- 1 vyper is cheap, a squadron of them isn’t
- The second you stop moving you have to absolutely destroy the thing your attacking otherwise your going to get destroyed
- Did I mention the stupidly low armour and BS?
- More expensive than their War Walker Cousins
They gain a 3+ cover for turboboosting.
They are BS4.
They may deepstrike with no scatter. If they elect to do this, they count as having turboboosted and may not shoot this turn.
They may deepstrike normally (up to 12") and may move&shoot but must move at cruising speed and may not fire their main weapon.
They have a 6" assault phase movement.
Alright, those are my ideas. Now you other people post yours.
Last edited by MrBenis; January 25th, 2011 at 03:47.
After seeing the experimental rules for the FW hornets, I can't see a way to make these guys worth taking, but different than the hornets. To me the hornets are what the vypers should have been in the first place. So my suggestion is to drop the vypers from the codex, and put in the hornets. If I want sheer firepower force, I'll take warwalkers. If I want to zip a unit around the table top not doing much of anything, I'll take jetbikes, at least they can capture objectives. If I wanted sheer firepower on a fast moving platform, and the hornet was in the codex, I'd take the hornet.
The problem is, they either turboboost to stay alive, or they fire to try and kill stuff. First case you're not killing anything, so why bother bringing it to the table, second option, it gets shot to bits after only one or two rounds of shooting..... so why bring it to the table? I'll try and be less negetive and come up with something to help it out...
bs4 I think is a must for all our vehicles. Why? With all our targetting equipment, and long lifetime of training, the best we can do is a 50% chance of hitting? This is a definite for a vyper. If it pauses to shoot, it needs to hit. Heavy weapons (especially the lance) need a drop in points but that goes for every heavy weapon option in our book (except scatter lasers, they're king). Give it 11/11/10 armour. Make holofields cheaper, or remove the option altogether. As it is it is just mocking us. If you remove the holofield option, give it an energy field of some kind, maybe a 5+ cover for sitting still, or even a token cover save of 6+, so at least is has something. We like our energy fields don't we? Let it take a pulse laser. I don't know why its restricted to falcons.
I like the idea of 6 inch assault move, that mitigates a lot of its weaknesses right there with the ability to hide behind cover.
The comparison of Vypers to Hornets was inevitable, and it is fair but they are very different units. Hornets have higher armour, are not opentopped and can carry more heavy weapons. They scout and have starengines in their base cost. At this exact moment in time Hornets outclass vypers.
Introduce my changes however and you gain a couple of key differences that make vypers a more valid alternative. Well first off they hit more often. Secondly they gain a higher save from turboboosting and can deepstrike whereas hornets may only scout. They can assault move back behind cover.
The net effect is that Hornets are fast warwalkers, vypers are heavy jetbikes with deepstrike.
Front armor 11
15 point holo-feilds
And i think we have a viable unit
Yes as in the book.
And get dem Dragons out of dem Falcons! Downright embarisin sometimes.
vipers were only good when we could take the crystal targeting matrix so you could hide behind something after shooting. any one in favous of bringing it back?
What they should do with these guys is get rid of the armour value and turn them into the Edar equilevent of Space Marine attack bikes and allow you to take them in a squad of jetbikes. How much better would a squad of jetbikes be if they could zip around with some heavy weapons that give them some proper antitank capabilities.
Av11 10 10 open topped
energy field (yeah i think should be included in ALL eldar vehicles), star engines, scout
3+ cover saves on turboboosting
deep strike capable, count of turboboosting
holofield option at the new codex points (still not decided what level should be balanced for all vehicles in eldar codex)
bright lance and EML at new points level (same as above)
Hight elf and Craftworld Eldar army project pics heavy: linky
Maybe turboboosting, but still able to fire at -1BS? 5+ to hit, but you're moving so that you're gettng a cover save at least. Maybe bump the cover save to 3+? Not sure.
None of our units have rear AV11 so I don't think our smallest tank should get it.
Weapons way cheaper
More weapon options .. twin-linked cats can upgrade to melta gun, shirken cannon, reaper launcher, wraith cannon.
Star engines standard
Crystal targeting matrix standard
Holo fields need to be 15pts max for all tanks.
Edit: Of course all tanks get bumped to BS4. BS3 I agree is insane with the tech Eldar should have even if a lowly guardian is driving, which doesn't make sense to me ether since pilots are needed in war time always so they would be better then standard guardians at shooting.
Last edited by designer891; January 25th, 2011 at 18:39.