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After looking at the new Shadow Spectre models I was compelled to write up this Ulthwe list and fluff. I might greenlight the project and build the army, but I’d like to be sure about it before moving forward. I’d like the army to be playable but not necessarily very competitive. Fluff is key. Heres the list and fluff. I’m new to Eldar and the army is strictly conceptual at this point so pardon my lack of point values.
The big core of guardians, seer council, and possibly avatar and dire avengers forms half of the army, conceptually. They’re fairly versatile, although slow. Seers can whip out eldritch storms at hordes, potentially bolster shooting from dire avengers, reapers, rangers, or spiders within range. Dooming of course. Gotta love the dooming. These guys can hold up in a fight (especially with an avatar), claim objectives, and some guardian units could be sacrificed if need be without a massive point loss. Also, there is nothing here with an AV, so anti-tank guns are useless (though I fear that they’d be turned against the Avatar).
The second half can be thought of as mobile (except for the reapers) support. Spectres are great against big things (tanks, TMCs, even titans) with ghostsight and haywire launcher, with the option of 4 ap2 attacks if there are lotsa Terminator equivalents about. The warp spiders are versatile and can tackle light tanks like transports quite nicely, as well as doing lots of wounds on tough targets with their strength 6. Reapers do as reapers do- take out MEQ threats, light tanks, etc.
Ulthwe-themed force. The dark guardians, seer council, shadow spectres, and dark reapers are all related to Ulthwe directly. I like the feel of a retinue of a retinue protecting the seer council (made up of the core troops and avatar) with a host of bewildering aspects teleporting around gunning down enemies who get too close. In a sense, the warp spiders would act like the tiny creatures that they’re named after, “cleaning away” threats to the central wraithbone core that is the seer council and retinue. Not sure if that’s entirely accurate, but it sounds cool J. The rangers fit the theme of ethereal attacks materializing from nowhere. To enemies, it would appear almost as if the council is being guarded by a psychic/magical force that materializes from nowhere and then fades away before the seers/guardians/avatar/avengers crush the stunned and weakened survivors.
Your thoughts on play and fluff? Any idea how many points (ballpark) this would get me to?
1 Large Seer Council on foot with assorted powers. Doom, eldritch storm to deal with hordes, maybe some fortune to help in close combats for themselves and the rest of the slogging force. Eldrad included, if points possible.
1 Avatar of Khaine. Might replace him with a second seer council on bikes.
Several big squads of storm guardians (not sure on unit size?) with warlocks attached to form a core force of slogging, objective-sitting horde. Weapons platforms? Some bright lances or lasers could be helpful.
Also considering a unit or two of rangers and/or Dire Avengers. Rangers are cheap and scoring and could help restrict some enemy movement, while the Dire Avengers could add fire power to the slogging core.
None. Maybe a squad of scorpions, though they’re not a priority.
3x Warp Spiders (unsure of proper unit size or exarch loadout)
2 units of 5 Shadow Spectres. Exarchs with Cynosure and Haywire Launcher.
1 unit of Dark Reapers
I would avoid Seer Councils. Too expensive and not good enough considering the fact that they can take up a third of your points. I'm not sure even the fluff would justify taking them. I'd just go with a Farseer here, Eldrad if you really want to splash.HQ:
1 Large Seer Council on foot with assorted powers. Doom, eldritch storm to deal with hordes, maybe some fortune to help in close combats for themselves and the rest of the slogging force. Eldrad included, if points possible.Yaah! Two Seer Councils?! ... Yeah, anyway. Don't do that. Keep the avatar.1 Avatar of Khaine. Might replace him with a second seer council on bikes.Well, Guardians in general are awful, and I wouldn't even recommend them to an Ulthwe player. However, at least you've gone with Storm Guardians, which aren't nearly as appalling as Defenders. If you must use them, have them in Wave Serpents with one or two fusion guns per unit, and load out the Wave Serpents with Eldar Missile Launchers or Scatter Lasers. If you want to use a Warlock with them, use the Enhance power. Oh, and Storm Guardians can't take weapons platforms.Troops:
Several big squads of storm guardians (not sure on unit size?) with warlocks attached to form a core force of slogging, objective-sitting horde. Weapons platforms? Some bright lances or lasers could be helpful.Dire Avengers are much more like it. Excellent infantry killers, load them in a Wave Serpent, give them an Exarch with dual cats and Bladestorm, and maybe even a Farseer to cast Doom now and then, and you're good to go. I highly recommend them. Avoid Rangers.Also considering a unit or two of rangers and/or Dire Avengers. Rangers are cheap and scoring and could help restrict some enemy movement, while the Dire Avengers could add fire power to the slogging core.Scorpions or Banshees, you want one or the other. Depends what kind of army you're likely to be fighting more often as to which one, though; if you're likely to be fighting lots of Space Marine and Chaos armies, go with Banshees. Lots of Guard or Ork armies, go with Scorpions. Both are equally good at what they do. Wave Serpent, as always, is mandatory.Elites:
None. Maybe a squad of scorpions, though they’re not a priority.I would say you don't need the Fast attack here. Warp Spiders aren't great, frankly, though they're not bad, but I don't really see this list needing them.Fast Attack:
3x Warp Spiders (unsure of proper unit size or exarch loadout)I'm a little dubious about the Shadow Spectres. I personally don't think they're going to prove to be very good. If you must use them, at this stage I'd say use one unit maximum with that loadout, and the other two HS slots should be either 2 Fire Prisms, or maybe Warp Hunters which look quite good.Heavy Support:
2 units of 5 Shadow Spectres. Exarchs with Cynosure and Haywire Launcher.
1 unit of Dark Reapers
Although, having said that, if this list is going to end up being a hybrid list, or if you completely ignore my advice to use at least some tanks (which you're more than welcome to do) then you probably want to use Wraithlords and War Walkers instead, so maybe 1 unit of Spectres, a Wraithlord and a squad of War Walkers with full Scatter Laser loadouts.
I personally think you should probably expand this into a hybrid list, keeping the Avatar and other units like War Walkers, Wraithlords and maybe one unit of Storm Guardians with a Spiritseer warlock to keep the Wraithlord in check so as to have a decent footslog section, but also with some mechanised parts as well in the form of mainly Aspect Warriors in Wave Serpents.Off the top of my head and with absolutely no consultation to the codex, I'd say roughly 1250-1500. But I'm not at all certain.Any idea how many points (ballpark) this would get me to?
Hope that helps.
Other than what Acarna has already said, I'd recommend swapping the Dark Reapers for a wraithlord. Provide some meat between your bread so to speak.
I have to disagree with Acarna about the seer councils. They are awesome and you can make a fairly cheap one with 200-250pts (sounds like a lot but its not for how good they are). A Farseer with fortune and runes and 3-5 warlocks one with the re-roll leadership and one with enhance. They have almost always made their points back for me if not desroyed 2x their poinats worth. They are one of the best tank killing units in the game and can keep even the toughest CC units at bay or even defeat them in enough turns, only way you can go wrong with them is not to give them any support or leave them out in the open for bolter fire. I always seem to get them in CC, but I also give them a WS 80% of the time and never CC terminators.
Avatar is great for your other HQ, the fearless radius helps a lot and he is a great fire magnet, also makes sure no CC unit gets too close. These are my 2 standard HQ choices for most games.
I have to admit my experience with the avatar has been mostly underwhelming. The idea that bolters can kill one is just sad. If anything a literal God, made of molten metal should be at minimum T8 if not T10. He can stay s6 for all I care but he should be DAMNED hard to kill.
This works for me, admittedly the avatar is far from unkillable and has died a few times with some bad saving rolls but he gets the job done. He is a tough bastard and will kill a fair number of enemies before he is taken down. In the last game I took him, it took three whole turns of CC against 3 full squads ofBlack Templars to take him out.
(Although due to a misunderstanding of the Black Templar vows, my opponent taking all of them till we got that part checked out, he was only allowed 1, lol, he still managed to survive that long. The black templars had prefered enemy and +1 strength, so they were beefed up a lot more than they should have been but my avatar lasted well despite those odds.)
I had also used the guardians to flank round the sides rather than swarm at the base of Avatar like I normally did, I had three wraithlords and the avatar in the middle, two squads of Storm Guardians swarming round the sides and two squads of striking scorps outflanking, the striking scorpions chewed through the remaining enemy units...they were awesome. Also had a squad of wraithguard for some reason, lol, dont ask me why but they did kill off a enemy unit themselves so they werent completly useless, lol. Also in this game I actually used Yriels Eye of wrath for the first time ever, it was fantastic, killed 19 Marines to himself before he was killed in CC, powerfist to the face...kinda does that.
Anyway gone completely off topic here and I apologise, the avatar is an awesome HQ especially the points you pay and is essesntial if your doing a footslogging list, so long as you get him in CC he will make you proud!
Yes a zilla against BT is probably going to work ok
It's not even a matter of high level play for me, having someone who is t6, slow and can't join squads faffing about taking shells and not plowing through them doesn't seem right to me. So a wraithlord can get more expensive than an avatar which is fine, but you can take 3 of them. What would 3 avatars be like?
Now make them T10 avatars that Always Strike First.
I have always been happy with the Avatar honestly he is well worth his points IMO. I would love to see him get FoF though..... that would make me ooo so happy
He should be immune to poison though or a 2+ save cause of the new DE weapons if they do change anything.
Last edited by designer891; January 26th, 2011 at 00:58.