1750pts vs Dark Eldar. First 'Nid game - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
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    1750pts vs Dark Eldar. First 'Nid game

    Hey everyone. First of what I hope to be many posts on these forums. I'm a new Nid player but have played previously. I started with Space Marines then to Space Wolves. I love my Wolves but it leaves a little to the imagination. I used to play Orcs and Goblins in Fantasy and absolutely loved the horde mentality coupled with their goofy spin offs. I'm definitely more of a competative player now. I'm aiming to get to a level where I can go into a tournament and not be an embarassment to myself and go from there. I feel I have a decent understanding of what will work in theory but please correct me if I am wrong as I am always wanting to improve.

    Perhaps not my first game but in my first two or three I will be playing Dark Eldar. After having looked through the codex a few times I can see this may be a very difficult fight. I've taken a fair amount of range in attempts to open up Raiders and quickly put down Ravagers so that I can get to the juicey elf flesh inside. A fair number of large blast templates to keep foot sloggers busy on the way in (gooey elves are still tasty!) and then some big nasties to clean up. Anyways, here's what I was thinking...

    HQ:

    Tervigon w/ Catalyst

    Elite:

    2 x Hive Guard
    2 x Hive Guard
    2 x Hive Guard

    Troops:

    Tervigon w/ Catalyst
    20 Termagaunts w/ Fleshborer
    20 Termagaunts w/ Fleshborer
    25 Hormagaunts w/ Adrenal Glands
    25 Hormagaunts w/ Adrenal Glands
    3 Tyranid Warriors w/ 2 Devourer and 1 Barbed Strangler
    Heavy:

    Tyranofex w/ Rupture Cannon
    3 Biovores

    So I figure that the Tyranofex can offer consistant pressure on Raiders and Ravagers. Both of them are nearly auto penned by the long range weapon of the Tyranofex and in getting close enough to put him down with lances Raiders and Ravagers will get into range of the Hive Guard. From there I figured the Tervigons would poop out Termagaunts in an objective game and head backwards to capture objectives, while by this time at least a couple transports should've been popped and I can swarm them.

    I am expecting to play against something roughly as follows...

    2-4 units of warriors, more than likely in raiders but they might just be sitting on an objective at home.
    2 units of wyches
    1 ravager
    1-2 chronos
    likely 3 haemoculi
    possibly bikes

    I've played this guy with my Space Wolves before and I know that I will be able to adapt to any changes he might make on the fly, I'm mostly concerned about how to approach this battle and if the list I've chosen is competative. I would very much like to win. I don't really care if it's "cheese" or "unsportsman-like" Every army has cheese. Every army can be unsportsman-like if you ask me. It's one reason I'm playing an army aside from Space Wolves.

    Thanks in advance guys!


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  3. #2
    jy2
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    That's a pretty good start to a balanced tyranid army. You seem to already have a good understanding of how nids work. There are a couple of changes, however, that can make your list even better.

    1. Its better to take the tervigon as a troop choice than a HQ. There's nothing like a T6 monstrous creature with 6 wounds that is also a scoring unit. Move him to the troop selection.

    2. I don't really see any purpose in the small tyranid warrior unit, other than for synapse. It's too small to really contribute to the offense and too expensive to be an objective sitter (that's the purpose of the spawned gaunts from the tervigon). Drop this unit. Don't worry, I have plans for your warriors.

    3. Now that, you've moved your tervigon to the troops section, you need an HQ. My recommended HQ? Yes, you guessed it. This is where you can use your tyranid warriors - as a Tyranid Prime. Stick him with the hive guards to make them much more durable. You prime will also provide another source of synapse.

    This would be my recommended list:


    Tyranids 1750

    HQ:

    Tyranid Prime w/ Deathspitter, Bonesword + Lash Whips

    Elite:

    2 x Hive Guard
    2 x Hive Guard
    2 x Hive Guard

    Troops:

    Tervigon w/ Cluster Spines + Catalyst
    Tervigon w/ Cluster Spines + Catalyst
    20 Termagaunts w/ Fleshborer
    20 Termagaunts w/ Fleshborer
    25 Hormagaunts w/ Adrenal Glands
    25 Hormagaunts w/ Adrenal Glands

    Heavy:

    Tyranofex w/ Cluster Spines, Dessiccator, Rupture Cannon
    3 Biovores

    Total - 1750 pts


    You need to be advancing this army at all times, using the hormagants as your vanguard and all the while shooting. Biovores are awesome against DE, as long as you can get within range to blow up their tanks. Keep your army together, using gants to provid cover for hive guards and then the hive guards cover for your monstrous creatures (TMC's).

    Whereas most people would probably try to destroy the ravagers first, I think it is more important to destroy his transports, starting with the wyches. Then rain living spores on top of them before finally finishing them off with your swarm.
    Last edited by jy2; January 26th, 2011 at 16:54.
    Record: Win - Loss - Draw: Hive Fleet Pandora (New) 32-6-6 Space Wolf 7th Co. 52-11-6
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  4. #3
    I am a free man! number6's Avatar
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    Ditto to all of jy2's advice. And his list is pretty decent as well. Though I think toxin sacs are absolutely required. Rerolls to wound against DE? Yes, please!

    But at the same time, I really don't think assault is where you want to engage DE. For one thing, if you come out focusing on that aspect, they'll just run away from you. They are significantly faster than you. It's hard to know how soon your hive guard will be effective, for example, and that's a potential problem. And another reason: the DE can be built super-scary in assault as well. IMHO, the thing that 'nids do better than anybody else is swamping with countless attacks. Too many bodies, too many dice, to survive any onslaught.

    So I'd approach the army as a shooting army -- it's not like DE have good armour saves! -- but with serious bite in assault if the DE player is foolish enough to wander too close to you.

    Here's how I'd tweak it....

    HQ
    [105 pts] Prime, bonesword/lash whip, devourer, regeneration
    [105 pts] Prime, bonesword/lash whip, devourer, regeneration

    Elite
    [100 pts] 2 Hive Guard
    [100 pts] 2 Hive Guard
    [100 pts] 2 Hive Guard

    Troops
    [100 pts] 10 Termagaunts, devourers
    [195 pts] Tervigon, cluster spines, catalyst, toxin sacs, adrenal glands
    [100 pts] 10 Termagaunts, devourers
    [195 pts] Tervigon, cluster spines, catalyst, toxin sacs, adrenal glands
    [100 pts] 10 Termagaunts, devourers
    [195 pts] Tervigon, cluster spines, catalyst, toxin sacs, adrenal glands

    Heavy:
    [265 pts] Tyrannofex, cluster spines, rupture cannon, desiccator larvae
    [90 pts] 2 Biovores
    [90 pts] 2 Biovores

    Total: 1750 pts

    Everything can shoot down DE infantry with ease, and you can even glance raiders to death with your Termagants (those you start with and those you generate) if you have to.

    Plus you have two serious assault monsters in the Primes as well as the ability to absorb DE charges and murder them with a wall of dice when you countercharge in (or even if you decide to initiate your own charge).

    Join the Primes to Hive Guard units to catch bullets ... at least as long as there are still DE boats flying around. After you completely demech the DE, the hive guard become bullet-catchers for your Primes. Just advance relentlessly upon them, pooping out as many Termagants as you can and shoot/assault everything dead.

    This army snould work well against any opponent, actually. It's fairly well-balanced, if a little heavy on anti-infantry, but it should prove especially rough on DE.
    Last edited by number6; January 26th, 2011 at 21:03.
    ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
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  5. #4
    Karrot Dialysis karantalsis's Avatar
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    Number6 makes good points, I'm not a nid player, but rather a DE player and his suggested list would give me pause. I mean I reckon I'd still win, but it would be tough. Your original list I would cut apart.

  6. #5
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    Thanks for the replies my bug brothers! I like the changes made to both of the lists. The first moreso but only because I'm worried about the second list's lack of bodies. Each of the termagaunt units can be widdled down to nothing by one unit of DE shooting. I would assume that I'd rely upon the Tervigons to poop out enough bodies for me?

    I will have to proxy the Hive Guard, I just got a big old set of Nids but they didn't include Hive Guard. After reviewing some lists and the codex I quickly realized I'm going to have to drop a good $200 on those guys, but it will be worth it so long as they perform as I think they will. I forsee no reason they won't. A lot like my dreaded long fangs... just not pussies in combat hahaha.

    Thanks again guys, any other comments or list suggestions are welcome! I will probably play my first game against the organ bags (Imperial Guard) and will need to make a list for them too. Though I think this would work against them too!

  7. #6
    I am a free man! number6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg861 View Post
    Thanks for the replies my bug brothers! I like the changes made to both of the lists. The first moreso but only because I'm worried about the second list's lack of bodies. Each of the termagaunt units can be widdled down to nothing by one unit of DE shooting. I would assume that I'd rely upon the Tervigons to poop out enough bodies for me?
    To some extent you are relying on the Tervigons to give you upwards of 30, 40, or even more bodies to play with.

    But only to some extent. Each tervi has Catalyst, you noticed. Your initial gant units are significantly more dangerous -- at least for shooting -- than anything the tervis will produce. What you should do is spawn new dudes in front of the devilgants giving them cover. Then you catalyze the devilgants as well. If the DE player wants to wipe out the cover-providing screen of gants because it's easy for them to do so ... hey, let 'em! You're not out anything at all. The point is to make it all but impossible to take out your initial 30, more dangerous gants.

    What you're getting out of my army list, you see, is incredible resilience. The units that are relatively easy to remove for DE are not units you need anyway. Everything else will require true focus. Sure, the DE -- like many other armies, including (but not limited to) IG, SM, SW, etc. -- can typically wipe out any one unit they want with focused firepower. The Tyranid answer to such things should be, "So what?"

    My army is a "So what?" army. You wiped out two or even three gant screens in one turn? Big deal. The rest of the army is still on the table and advancing upon you. (And barring absolutely atrocious luck, I'll be making a few more gant screens anyway.) You took out a tervigon? Big deal. Got two more where that came from. You took down some hive guard and biovores? Big deal. Still have more hive guard (probably protected by a Prime) and more pie plates hitting you anyway. (The tervis and Tfex each have a S5 template attack.) And poison may wound Tfexes easily, but it's still like trying to remove 6 terminators. I've seen it done, but it typically requires absolutely everything the opposing player has for a single turn to accomplish, and you still won't be in bad shape if it goes down.

    All that said, if body count is truly worrying you, just exchange each unit of 10 devilgants for a unit of 20 normal termagants. Same points and twice the wounds, but you do lose out on the shooting. (Not to mention making it that much harder to move your massive swarm around! ) Personally, I think the additional potency of the shooting is required, but YMMV.
    Last edited by number6; January 26th, 2011 at 18:36.
    ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
    RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014

  8. #7
    jy2
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    797 (x8)

    I can guarantee you that if he's using his firepower to whittle down your horde, that's all the better for you. That means his target prioritization isn't right. What he should be aiming for foremost is your hive guards and then your tervigons. He won't be able to hit your biovores because if you're playing them correctly, they should be out of LOS for the most part. Take away his mobility (assuming he's playing full or partial mech), and you've pretty much got this game in the bag. Put FNP on your hive guards and keep them behind the termagants for cover, but always make sure that they are all moving forwards and not just sitting still.

    While toxin sacs is generally prefered on hormagants, in this case, adrenal glands actually make sense. You can glance the vehicle to death thanks to open-topped with your hormagants. You're wounding DE on 3's (which is about the same as re-rollable 4's from poisoned attacks) and in this case, the +1I means that you're actually attacking before most of the DE units which are normally I5.
    Record: Win - Loss - Draw: Hive Fleet Pandora (New) 32-6-6 Space Wolf 7th Co. 52-11-6
    Blood Angels 12-4-2 Daemonhunters 20-8-3
    Imperial Guards 12-5-2 Daemons 8-3-2

  9. #8
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    I like number6 list the most out of the ones that our here although I would perfer something different more close combat flare to it... I do think certain nid weapons(such as lash whips and bone swords) can just cause good portion of the dark eldar cc units a really hard time. Anyways back to the list I think you would be better off dropping the biovores then using the points to beef up the hive guard sqds cause if your opponent is using a bunch of raiders than his first target is going to be ur anti-tank so insure that it lives long enough to de-mech seems imparative.

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