Letís talk about Old Zogwort. The most Anti-HQ HQ! - Warhammer 40K Fantasy

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    Letís talk about Old Zogwort. The most Anti-HQ HQ!

    Heís one of the most overlooked HQ choices in the Ork army. What Ork player would take a Weidboy rather than a S10 Power Fist or a Kustom Force Field? But I think Old Zog needs another look and hereís whyÖ

    WS is the same as an average Boy but that is no big deal considering you roll for 4s majority of the time anyways.
    BS is 0 but when he lands a Psychic Shot it hits automatically.
    S is 3 but he has 2+ Poisonous attacks.
    T as a Warboss!
    W are same as a Warboss!
    I is the regular 2, but he gets additional D6 attacks at Initiative 4.
    2 Attacks just like a regular Boy, but they are 2+ Poisonous. +1 Attack on a Charge!
    Another D6 attacks at Initiative 4 and those are also 2+ Poisonous.
    Ld is 8, but he is affected by the Mob Rule up to Ld10 (Ork FAQ)!
    Save is the typical feral 6+ which quite frankly does suck. But there are ways to deal with this.

    Hereís how I use Zog and how it works for me. Granted this section will likely cause some debate, but I like to think I have looked at most instances and have read the RAW and RAI(ntended).

    Put Zog in a large mob of Shoota Boyz. Typically blocked or lead by another large squad of Choppa Boyz. This protects Zog from having to get into CC as often and allows some delay so his Curse can come into effect. This also allows you to use the Shoota Boyz to protect the front squad, and Zogís 33% chance of rolling a Shooty attack. Thereís a potential drawback if you want to run and Zog rolls a Shooty attack, but the auto hits are priceless. Either of the Shooty results are spectacular to me. I typically take a horde of Boyz and a WB.

    Frazzle 24Ē S6 AP3 Blast, Pinning
    Auto hit Blast! Do I have to type it again? For Marines thatís a 2+ to wound and NO Armour Save! Plus thereís a chance the unit you hit will not do anything next turn! We Orks donít see that too often.

    Zzap 36Ē S10 AP2 Melta
    Auto hit Tank Killer! Seriously folks! It can be used to instant kill that IC that canít join a squad. But I donít have to tell you Ork players this!

    Now Zog has another attack that has a range but is not mentioned as a Psychic Shooting attack (Ork FAQ). Itís the infamous Curse! Thatís right ladies, take your ICs indoors or keep them away!

    Q. Which Weirdboy psychic power is a psychic shooting attack?
    A. Frazzle and Zzap (though they include a few exceptions to the normal shooting rules, as specified in their description).
    Not all Psychic powers that require LoS are Psychic shooting attacks.

    Q: Can a model use a psychic power that is not a Psychic Shooting Attack if it is embarked in a transport vehicle?
    A: Yes. If the power requires line of sight, this is still worked out from the vehicleís fire points (this will count as one model shooting through that fire point if the power is used in the Shooting phase). If the psychic power does not require line of sight and has a range or an area of effect that is normally measured from the model using it, these are measured from the vehicleís hull, as explained in the Embarking section on page.
    Zogwort may use his curse as a psychic power instead of rolling on the Weirdboy psychic power chart.
    Choose an Independent Character model that is in Zogwortís line of sight.
    If that model is within 18Ē, both players roll a dice.
    If the Ork player scores higher, the target model is replaced with an angry Squig under the control of your opponent.
    You must provide the Squig model.
    It has a profile and no wargear or special rules, but is an IC that counts as Infantry
    Not that youíd want to use it this way, but technically you could avoid rolling on the Weirdboy chart by opting to use the Curse. I think thatís cheese because there are so many good things on the chart. Only <17% chance you lose your head.

    There will be debates whether the curse can be used in CC, and whether it can be used while an IC is in CC. This isnít address anywhere (that I can find) so it appears that Zog could be the most hazardous overlooked anit-IC weapon.

    Even if Zog is in CC, during the shooting phase he can choose to Curse an IC not in the current CC and up to 18Ē away. Iím totally open to comparing similar non-shooting psychic attacks that are similar in nature and instruction. But seeing as how Weirdboys have to use a power and Zog gets to chose, this is how I interpret. I could see a FAQ preventing the effect out of the current CC but not preventing in CC altogether. Even so, with a 50% chance to get a power weapon in CC with those poisonous attacks, thatís 2 or 3 + D6 at 4+ to hit and 2+ to wound with no armour saves. Iíll take that!

    So then thereís the Wierdboy psychic power chart!
    Two awesome shooting attacks, a +1 Attack, Deep Strike, or a Waaagh! every turn.

    Yes there are some anti-psychic folks out there, but you can always try! And Zog is not useless in CC.
    Yes you need to make sure Zog is in range to effect, and yes he will get special priority on your opponentís hit list. Bu that's less your other Boyz have to worry about.
    Granted also there are a lot of hopeful dice rolls in all of this but donít you know Gork and Mork are in control regardless.
    More often than not Zog will keep your game interesting and challenge your Strategic Improv.
    If all else, I can almost guarantee your opponent wonít know what to do after two (or more!) of their ICs are now snarling squigs.

    For what itís worth, as some of you might be steaming to reply by now, I think there should be some clarification on Zogís capabilities. I am waiting patiently for an Ork FAQ update with Zog clarified. All right, be nice cause this is IMHO. Waaagh!

    Last edited by p13th0r4; February 1st, 2011 at 17:51.

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  3. #2
    LO Zealot Rafici's Avatar
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    I have fielded him once and didn't do well I kept jumping all over the board as i kept getting deep strike lol
    In the end it died to LD test forced on 3D6 by elder.
    I can see if being good but its not in a league to challenge the BM with KFF so that means it has to beat the warboss.
    I watn to try it more but mostly playing 600 with some 1200 point games at the moment - may try one at some point (have a big 3K game coming up but against SW thats a lot of rune priests who can make my day harder.

    Shooting into CC is prob not a problem as he can stand there and do it but shooting whilst in CC or out of it may be hard as someone will be swinging at your head so you would have time. Therefore i would say this is prob not allowed.
    Tau: 6K - W17-D3-L4, Orks: 4K - W9-D0-L2, SM: 7K - W7-D3-L4,CSM: 4K W5-D1-L1, Nids: 3.2K W3-D0-L2
    Apoc games (mixture of armies used): W5-D0-L1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafici View Post
    Shooting into CC is prob not a problem as he can stand there and do it but shooting whilst in CC or out of it may be hard as someone will be swinging at your head so you would have time. Therefore i would say this is prob not allowed.
    I agree, but I haven't seen it referenced as a Psychic Shooting attack. I think GW would say that if Zog were in CC (or even BtB ) with an IC the Curse could work. But not out of CC, like you mentioned.

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    Senior Member krytie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by p13th0r4 View Post
    I agree, but I haven't seen it referenced as a Psychic Shooting attack. I think GW would say that if Zog were in CC (or even BtB ) with an IC the Curse could work. But not out of CC, like you mentioned.
    The basic question needing answered is "Does Zogwart's Curse count as a shoooting attack?" They need to state clearly in either direction. The previous FAQ was about Weirdboy powers, and i believe they just didn't think about poor ol Zog at all when they answered.

    Normally individual abilities will be quite clear about their uses and restrictions, but Curse is not as clear as it could be. There are 2 well oiled examples in the CSM dex:
    Gift of Chaos - Not a shooting attack, can be used in CC (incl both user and target).
    Nurgle's Rot - IS a shooting attack, and can be used in CC (user and target).

    The way it stands now, I would say that the Curse is not a shooting attack, and can be used in CC (both user and target) because it only states visibilty and range are required.
    There are three types of people in this world -- those who can count, and those who cannot.

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    Well put! But what do you mean by
    Quote Originally Posted by krytie View Post
    and can be used in CC (both user and target)
    Do you mean Zog in CC can use it out of CC, and int CC. And he can use it to effect into CC if he's out of CC.

    That would be powerful, but giving that it's not mentioned anywhere that it is a shooting attack, that makes sense.
    Last edited by p13th0r4; February 2nd, 2011 at 19:41.

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    Senior Member krytie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by p13th0r4 View Post
    Well put! But what do you mean by

    Do you mean Zog in CC can use it out of CC, and int CC. And he can use it to effect into CC if he's out of CC.

    That would be powerful, but giving that it's not mentioned anywhere that it is a shooting attack, that makes sense.
    Yes, this is exactly what i meant. The caveat is that some other "newer" powers state both explicitly. Afaik, CC-engaged units are only immune from Shooting and Tank-Shocking, which are both explicitly denied by the BRB. Curse is neither.
    There are three types of people in this world -- those who can count, and those who cannot.

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    Member AvatarADV's Avatar
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    The problem is deep striking.

    If it was a power he could activate at will, even if only once per game, then it would be amazing. 'ere we go! Suddenly his unit is halfway across the board. But since it's a random effect, you can't plan for it and yet you can't discount the possibility. If it was just 'ead banger, and the prospect of losing some boyz, big whoop; I lose boyz all the time, I lose 'em to bosspoles, I lose 'em to waaagh rolls of 1, I lose 'em to mishaps with their rokkit pack. I lose a lot of 'em to the enemy.

    But deep strike is one of those things that can wipe out an entire unit if it goes wrong, and it's got a pretty sizable average deviation. On top of that, a big unit of boyz (and you don't wanna put Zogwort in a little unit, unarmored and expensive as he is) is awful hard to deep-strike - you've got to aim for open space far enough away from the enemy that you don't come down on top of them and lose the unit, but not so far away that your whole unit gets taken out of the battle. And when you're there, you're sitting around getting shot - either you run and don't get to shoot, or you sit there in a big clump and someone lands a pie plate on top of the whole unit. Nasty.

    On top of that, it's got the potential to throw your whole battle line into disarray - suddenly the big unit of boyz that was about to dish out the pain is halfway across the map, because that was the only safe spot to put them down, and now you've got nobody in range to charge the enemy next turn. Or you might have to jump early, and suddenly Zog's unit eats every template the enemy has while the rest of your army runs to catch up. Or maybe you're close enough to get your charge in, and your boyz are droolin' at the thought of looting those tasty Broadsides, when suddenly everything goes all sparkly and they're back in no-man's-land again. Zoggin' 'ell, we don't need any o' dat!

    Ironically, once you're stuck in, he's a lot nastier. Since there's no chance of 'ead Banger when you're in CC, you can treat the 'ere We Go result as your "bad - reroll", and the other ones are pretty good. One extra attack over a big squad of boyz is brutal. a free WAAAGH is nasty, and you've got a good chance of getting power weapon attacks with Zogwort - and 2+1d6 attacks that are poison 2+ AND a power weapon? That's as nasty as you can ask for.

    You know, now that I'm thinking about it, I'm liking the idea of trying him out more. Granted he's random and not easy to deal with, but he's got a useful bag of tricks available, and in CC he's brutal against MEQ. I'd still run a nob in any unit of boyz he was attached to, however... and given his low LD, it's got to be a big unit, no trukkboyz for him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarADV
    the prospect of losing some boyz, big whoop; I lose boyz all the time, I lose 'em to bosspoles, I lose 'em to waaagh rolls of 1, I lose 'em to mishaps with their rokkit pack. I lose a lot of 'em to the enemy.
    I laughed so hard when I read this! So very very true.

    To encourage the re-visit of Old Zog, don't forget he's a Warphead. He can re-roll the Weirdboy chart; granted you keep what you get the second roll.

    You're right about the Deep Strike issues. If you did roll 5 twice then you'd have to make an executive decision. I'm pretty sure they could not assault after Deep Striking in the Shooting phase. So you would get shot or assaulted. But giving the re-rolls, and likeliness that it would happen in the first two turns, I take my chances.

    Good post Avatar!

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    i know this is a fairly old thread so sorry but couldnt see the answers anywhere else, i would have assumed a bs of 0 means you cant hit with the melta power and the blast would scatter its full distance ?,

    hope someone can help

    Feel free to add me, but message that you're from here

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    Senior Member krytie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the one tyrant View Post
    i know this is a fairly old thread so sorry but couldnt see the answers anywhere else, i would have assumed a bs of 0 means you cant hit with the melta power and the blast would scatter its full distance ?,

    hope someone can help
    Interesting point.
    Technically, BS 0 means no ability to fire ranged weaponry at all (ie not just a bad shot, but unable to fire a gun) and is mostly reserved for the animals of the 40k world. This should mean all shots automatically miss. However..,
    The entries for Frazzle and Zzzap powers state specifically "if in range, they hit automatically" so i guess this Codex rule over-rules the BRB rule.
    There are three types of people in this world -- those who can count, and those who cannot.

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