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I am relatively new to warhammer 40k and my first army is necrons. I have been playing someone who fields 2x hive tyrants with a 2+ armor save. I am at a loss for what I can do that will work against two of these guys. With just one of them it seems I can tie them up with scarabs or in general lock them down, but two of them seems to be unmanageable...
Last time we played, tactics went in my favor and I was able to assault one hive tyrant with: the deceiver, 4x pariahs, destroyer mounted necron lord with warsycthe and wraith, and a tomb spyder with 1 scarab... And I still lost the combat.
I have gone through about 4 army lists ranging from 1500-2000pts, always against 2x hive tyrants and always unable to deal with them. Anyone know the best way to handle this? Any help is much appreciated.
First off, the Deceiver alone should be able to whoop both of them. The Hive Tyrant's 2+ means nothing to the Deceiver, I think you might be forgetting that the C'Tans and Warsycthes ignore ARMOR & Invulnerable saves. You should be hitting on at least half your attacks and wounding on a 2+. Also the Decievers toughness should keep it from being hurt too often by the Tyrants.
I think what is going on here is either you and your opponent don't understand all the rules, or he knows them and is screwing you over.
So just off the bat I should say that if you threw all that at a single tyrant and had the assault with extra attacks, you should have won. With the Deceiver, Lord, and pariahs all not allowing armor or invuln saves combined with the number of attacks from the wraith and TS. It should not have been close. Deceiver and Lord alone should statistically do three unsavable wounds on the assault. Assuming all pariahs are toast, you can still expect a single wound from the wraith or TS.
These instances withstanding, I would light him up with destroyers before going into combat with him. At least take a wound off. That will help a ton.
Lastly, if you are playing this player repeatedly and they know you have a hard time with this list and they play it every time... Find a new person to play with, cause that person is an a@@*$&#.
What Azraell said. Warsythes ignore all saves. Hive Tyrants only wound the Deceiver on 6s in CC.
Question, which nid MC was it that had some wargear that gave him WOUNDING attacks on a 2+...he wasted my deceiver after I killed 2 other MC's. Went into the fight with a full 5 wounds, and came out dead. Are Tyrants that kind of MC? Not familiar with the nid codex. They killed each other though .
"There is only do, or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
I was aware of the deceiver and warscythes ignoring armour saves. That was why i brought them.
To be a bit more specific, the hive tyrant I assaulted had a lash whip and acid blood. So If i remember correctly all the wounds I dealt to the hive tyrant were dealt back to everything that hit it, based on the results of an initiative test (which I failed all rolls due to my initiative being 1). My deceiver hit 3 times I believe and was reduced to 1 wound as a result, and the hive tyrant killed 3 out of 4 pariahs on it's initiative. I think the end result was I dealt 3 wounds and received 6.
Then due to it being a multiple combat, each remaining group had to take it's leadership/fearless resulting test. So the deciever took 3 additional wounds for losing the combat, the tomb spyder took 3 additional wounds, the pariah took 3 additional wounds, and the necron lord and wraith passed their leadership test. I am referencing page 44 in the rulebook, the section labeled "No Retreat". They all failed enough of their saves that my entire force (save the necron lord and wraith) were completely destroyed.
I did try to soften it up, I had a group of 3 destroyers shooting it for 2-3 solid turns prior to assaulting it, with no wounds dealt. Maybe I suck at rolling?
Was I just unlucky? or are there some gaps in the rules that I was being exploited with?
Thanks for everyone's comments so far, hope this helps refine my troubles.
I am not sure on the Bio-morphs, but I know Lash Whip reduces you to I1 for attacks...but i'm pretty sure all other tests are made at your normal initiative. Also, I am playing a game against my Nid friend and I'll check out his codex and see what that bio-morph is about and let you know.
The 1I last until the end of the aussalt pahse, so that was done correct. Acid blood does say when you deal an unsaved wound, so only the wounds that got through the saves should be hitting your own guys. Acid blood does ignore amrour and invurnablity saves.
Ok, I finished reading the Nid FAQ that GW has out but I was wondering, were you caught in a sweeping advance or not?
Also from my reading it is my understanding that the Lash Whip wargear only affects the when your attacks hit, no for the purpose of Itests.
Nope, no sweeping advance. The extra wounds were taken by my units that were fearless.
I thought this rule was bogus, which is why i listed the page up above. But according to this tyranid player, when a fearless unit losses an assault instead of rolling to stay in combat it simply receives extra wounds equal to the difference the combat was lost by. ( In my case 3). So since 3 of the units I had were fearless, and they all were involved in the combat they each received 3 additional wounds rather than the leadership test for fallback. Again that is found on page 44 in the "No Retreat" section and seems from what I understand to be legit.
Kinda makes fearless more of a disadvantage in my opinion...
The Deceiver imparticular was put at a disadvantage in this situation, since he easily deals wounds, and then is easily hit in response by the acid blood. Then after losing combat was forced to roll saves for additional wounds from being fearless. I think the mechanics for lash whip and acid blood are actually worded to where what happened to me was true to the rules. But it seems really unfair to me, because it means that virtually the only way to kill a hive tyrant with that combination is with ranged weapons. The only things the necrons seem to have going for them against this would be heavy destroyers and particle whip from the monolith. But supposedly these hive tyrants can also regenerate? and leech life from nearby units?
Kinda foggy on those last two things, but in general I don't see a good way to compete against them. Maybe 3 groups of scarabs, to lock them down with? Seems like a terrible idea to sacrifice taking destroyers, but scarabs have been what works best for me in the past against them.