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Todays topic is Banshees.Okay so the general structure of these threads is to address our BAD units first, then move on to the better ones. Please always read every post to avoid repetition. Please also try to discuss only the unit in question specificly. Referencing other units is OK, but should be limited to times when the other unit directly overlaps the target unit of this thread. Please do not adjust the units points cost. Let's bring our boys UP TO the points we're being charged, rather than lower them for the benefit of more units elsewhere. We're an elite army, right? Let's be expensive and ridiculously deadly, then.
These threads will work in two stages. First we brainstorm about the flaws as we perceive them, and provide a wide list of changes as we feel is appropriate. Phase two is taking the most supported ideas, compiling them together and finally arguing over any critical additions to the changelist.
From MWG.comMy fix? I'd give them base strength 4, and furious charge. Then bump the cost up (UP) to 18 per model. Banshee masks rules clarified: considered as grenades.+ Power Weapons
+ Decent Save
+ Banshee Mask
+ Nice core skills
+ Attach an HQ and they sky rocket in effectiveness
+ Good leadership
- NEEDS Transport
- Low Strength and Toughness
- Without support, anything T4 or above will kick your teeth in
- Armour is decent at best
- No real survivability
- Needs a baby sitter
Now you have two melee units that serve entirely different purposes within the same catagory, harlequins for hunting down entrenched squads of highly armoured dudes, and banshees conversely for hitting heroes or enemy melee squads.
My compiled thoughts blog.
If someone posts something helpful +rep them
Now ways to improve this unit.
1) Furious charge.
2) Their masks act like defensive grenades on top of their current status.
3) Increase their base profile to have 2 attacks. (I think this should be done for all CC aspects really since guardians are the same and they haven't recieved the same sort of training.)
4) Allow all members to take mirror swords as an upgrade. (This could be used instead of my previous suggestion of boosting their stats. You still recieve an extra attack by sacrificing the ability to shoot before charging.)
Any one of the upgrades (1, 2 and 4) would make them substantially more deadly than they already are. I still believe that my number 2 suggestion should come standard, combined with counter attack it would make it seem that the banshees always charge even when they themselves have been charged. Even if their points get boosted to accomadate any of these upgrades it would be worth it, but as I said at the beginning of my post, they are a fantastic unit for the points you pay at the moment and if you don't think that then you should have seen what they did in my last game.
They took out 2 terminator squads to them selves one after the other, one squad had storm shields and the other didn't but despite that they only suffered 2 casualties in the entire game, paid for their points in full and then some. (Warshout actually worked in that game! Rare occurance.)
Rules that gives them flexibility in design.
See wytches and how are designed - special weapons, drugs.
That can work on banshees. Keep them the PW unit flavour but make them capable by themselves not needed a doom seer.
War shout should be a ld test done by the eldar player and enemy unit lose one attack in that phase to a minimum of one.
Acrobatic should be kept as it is.
Furious charge is good and fluffy.
Grenades are a must.
Several members should be able to take special weapons like triskele and mirror weapons.
They should have duelist trait 4++ in close combat.
Exarch should have more weapons besides executioner and mirror swords that are good choices.
Hight elf and Craftworld Eldar army project pics heavy: linky
I dont think they need anything done for them. They are the mainstay of most armies and 16 points for a power weapon model is cheeeeeeeeeap. Eldar dont need a more expensive cc unit they already have that covered with harlies. if you give them any more attacks they will wipe out whole units in one phase, this will just open you up to be shot to oblivion
Here's what I think Banshees need:
1) Change Banshee Mask to this: A model with a banshee mask has furious charge and counts as being equipped with offensive and defensive grenades. This would make them reasonably effective without a doomseer and give you a reason to take a banshee mask on an Autarch. I actually think and Autarch with furious charge would be pretty badass.
2) Change the warshout power to this: The Exarch and her unit strikes at initiative 10 in the first round of combat.
3) Instead of choosing between mirror swords and an executioner, give the exarch what amounts to demi-klaives (S3 +2 attacks or S5), which is essentially a combination of the 2.
A 4++ in CC would be too powerful in my opinion.
The enemy's gate is down
Giving Exarchs access to Shimmershields instead of MS/Executioner would be cool. A 5(i)+ with reroll would be sweet, and the perfect '**** you' to Terminators with TH/SS.
Yeah furious charge would do the trick, and give them some grenades. At that they are a little cheap point wise, (I would make them 18 pts a model for the upgrades) but keep only the option for one special weapon on the exarch. Its fluffy that way and its they way eldar have been doing it for a long time now no need to change.
Yes as in the book.
And get dem Dragons out of dem Falcons! Downright embarisin sometimes.
Whoa whoa whoa. Lets try and keep some flavor here. Now that GW seems on course to give every army skimmer transports the only bit of flavor I can think of that is still pretty unique to craftworld Eldar is specialization.
Other armies get to have a power sword in a squad or a melta gun, we get squads with nothing but.
So Banshees should keep their schtick of power weapons without much power behind them. Leave strength 4 in a strength 3 army to the scorps and furious charge to the harlies. And Banshees aren't actually bad at the moment. If I was going to tweak them I'd say give some option where you can take some as troops somehow for that old Biel-Tan flavor or just stick with messing with the exarc.
I especially like the troop option, as Dire Avengers are specialized in a falvorful way, but until we get a codex change that turns vehicles into death traps again there just isn't that much call for their specialization in most battles.
Last edited by sunnyside; February 17th, 2011 at 03:58.
I believe that I would keep cost as it is and again avoid changing stat lines.
Banshee masks though need changing to maybe this.
On the charge you get iniative 10, plus the ability to reroll your missed hits.
Don't think this would over power them and it keeps them at there low str. Also it seems more in fitting with what the masks do, i.e the unit being attacked is gonna be pretty distracted which means the Banshees are more likely to hit, rather than wound their targets.
Executuioner keep the same,
mirror swords, reroll wounding for the exarch.
What do you think?
P.s. Exarch powers, maybe acrobatic allows you to assault from vehicles.
Last edited by Fear13; February 17th, 2011 at 16:15.
Banshees are ok in their own right as is. Many of the offered changes are drastically overpowered, especially when offered in combination. Base S4, no way, Base S4 and furious charge, hell no.
Furious charge or 2 base attacks would be acceptable.
I would prefer WS5 and 2 base attacks for 18pts with an exarch option to grant furious charge. Acrobat can stay the same. Weapons don't need much work either. Masks can stay the same, on the most extreme grant furious charge instead of the exarch option.