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Battle against the new Forgeworld Eldar units

3K views 27 replies 9 participants last post by  Vulcan 
#1 · (Edited)
Note - Mods, please do no move this to the Army List section. This is more of an evaluation of some of the newer forgeworld eldar units as well as a mini-battle report.

All these releases of new eldar units from Forgeworld has got me curious...how good are these units? The Wasp Assault Walker, Warp Hunter and Hornet all look to be very good units, thought the Shadow Aspect Warriors not so much.

The Wasp Assault Walker, discussed in more detail in this thread here, provides eldar with a lot more firepower as well as outrageous mobility for walker. The Eldar Hornet appears to be a much, much better version of the Vyper and the Warp Hunter has a unique and powerful new weapon. IMO it is better than the both the Fire Prism and Falcon.

I am going to setup a proxy battle between an eldar army consisting of some of these new models against my ultra-shooty space wolves army. I will be using the eldar list and will ask my brother to use my space wolves as he has experience playing both with and against it.

This is what I am thinking about using at 2500pts:


Eldar List #1
Autarch - Fusion Gun - 80
Farseer - Guide, Runes of Warding, Singing Spear - 93

5x Fire Dragons - Wave Serpent w/dual Shuri-cannons, Spirit Stones - 200
5x Fire Dragons - Wave Serpent w/dual Shuri-cannons, Spirit Stones - 200
5x Fire Dragons - Wave Serpent w/dual Shuri-cannons, Spirit Stones - 200

3x Wasp Assault Walkers - 5x Scatter Lasers, 1x Shuri-cannon - 215
3x Wasp Assault Walkers - 5x Scatter Lasers, 1x Shuri-cannon - 215
3x Wasp Assault Walkers - 5x Scatter Lasers, 1x Shuri-cannon - 215
3x Wasp Assault Walkers - 5x Scatter Lasers, 1x Shuri-cannon - 215
3x Guardian Jetbikes - 1x Shuri-cannon - 76
3x Guardian Jetbikes - 66

Hornet - 2x EML's, Spirit Stones - 105
Hornet - 2x EML's, Spirit Stones - 105
Hornet - 2x EML's, Spirit Stones - 105

Warp Hunter - Spirit Stones - 135
Warp Hunter - Spirit Stones - 135
Warp Hunter - Spirit Stones - 135

Total - 2495


Before I go on to the Space Wolves list, any thoughts and comments on this list?

I decided against going 3x3 War Walkers in the heavy slot because I felt it would not be a very balanced list then. Without bright lances, an all-walker list would have a hard time taking down units like land raiders or other heavily armoured vehicles even though it's got 3x5 fire dragons. Then when you add bright lances, their costs become exorbitant. The warp hunter, on the other hand has both good AT as well as decent anti-infantry, though it has to get up close to fry infantry.
 
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#2 ·
I've decided to modify my list slightly. I've replaced 1 autarch with a doomseer as I feel that Runes of Warding is of paramount importance.


Anything you see about the list that you think can be improved upon?


Coming up next, the Space Wolf list.
 
#3 ·
Not bad lists. In fact warp hunter i find it way more useful than prism or falcon and that is the main thing that shine in that apoc army.

And having squadrons with AV on troop choices makes the hunters pretty safe in the late phases of the game.

I would drop a single scatter on each squadron to a cannon for pen allocation shennigans. Those extra 30 points can be used on HQ wargear or cannons for jetbikes
 
#7 ·
Done. With the extra, I got 1 shuri-cannon for the jetbikes and spirit stones on all the hornets.


Pure outrage. Keep your dirty metagaming hands from my beloved army, jy2!

O hah, guess with those new toys even Eldar army could competetively shine a bit more. Alas, few tournaments will allow that to happen, which kepps my wallet safe.
For now.

Good job. Meh... tweaking the list. Again.
I'm a man of many armies....though eldar isn't one of them. Lol. It'll be great if you could use those new toys in standard tournies. I think they're pretty good and put eldar shooting on par with many of those MSU-lists out there. Otherwise, mechdar is seriously lagging (in terms of raw firepower in comparison to the newer 'dexes).

Let me know how you'd tweak the list again...if you think it could use tweaking.


----------------------------------------


Now the opponent. What better way to test out the army than to pit it against one of the most feared and shooty armies in all of 40k. This is a variant of my SW list. I've dropped my usual Wolf Guards and 1 unit of hunters for Bjorn and another Rifleman dread. I've never used Bjorn before, but after seeing the success one of my friends have had with him, I've decided to give him a try.


Space Wolves 2500
Bjorn - Plasma Cannon - 270
Rune Priest Blackheart- Chooser, Jaws of the World Wolf, Living Lightning - 110
Rune Priest Goldmoon - Boltgun, Chooser, Murderous Hurricane, Living Lightning - 110
Rune Priest Loki - Jaws of the World Wolf, Stormcaller - 100

Dreadnought - 2x TL-Autocannons - 125
Dreadnought - 2x TL-Autocannons - 125
Dreadnought - 2x TL-Autocannons - 125

5x Grey Hunters - 1x Meltagun, Rhino - 115 (RP here)
5x Grey Hunters - 1x Meltagun, Rhino - 115 (RP here)
5x Grey Hunters - 1x Meltagun, Razorback - 120 (Loki here)
5x Grey Hunters - 1x Flamer, Las/TL-plas Razorback - 150
5x Grey Hunters - 1x Flamer, Las/TL-plas Razorback - 150

Land Speeder Typhoon - 90
Land Speeder Typhoon - 90
Land Speeder Typhoon - 90

6x Long Fangs - 5x Missile Launchers, Las/TL-plas Razorback - 215
6x Long Fangs - 5x Missile Launchers, Las/TL-plas Razorback - 215
6x Long Fangs - 5x Missile Launchers, Razorback - 180

Total - 2495
 
#4 ·
Pure outrage. Keep your dirty metagaming hands from my beloved army, jy2!

O hah, guess with those new toys even Eldar army could competetively shine a bit more. Alas, few tournaments will allow that to happen, which kepps my wallet safe.
For now.

Good job. Meh... tweaking the list. Again.
 
#5 ·
Hmmmm I think you're in trouble for objective games. You've only got two tiny scoring units that aren't so hard to clear out. I figure you'll have a sort of cat and mouse minigame with them, but the space wolves have a number of options to get their "cats" where they need them.
 
#8 · (Edited)
What is the mission? If its not seize ground or capture and control you might as well drop the guardian jetbikes. If its seize ground you may want to take something that can actually hold an objective. Like some DA in serpents. All I know is that I personally think the new walkers are more for fun and a good unit to round out the list. I wouldn't put all my money on them. Kind of like when people take 3x walkers in all 3 heavy support slots. Its a real gamble. I would try something like 3x walkers in 3 squads, like they said use different weapons on 1 of the walker to abuse allocations. Then instead of jetbikes id take 3 squads of 5 DA in wave serpents , with missiles hopefully. But do what you can. I look forward to this. I really am thinking about getting some of the new eldar units when they come out with the APOC book for them.


And my personal opinion is that Warp Hunter > Prism, Hornet > Vyper, Wasp> War Walker.
Hmm....I was thinking about maximizing my firepower so kept the scoring to a minimum, but I do see what you are saying. How about this revised eldar list?


Eldar List #2
Autarch - Fusion Gun - 80
Farseer - Guide, Runes of Warding - 90

5x Fire Dragons - Wave Serpent w/dual Shuri-cannons, Spirit Stones - 200
5x Fire Dragons - Wave Serpent w/dual Shuri-cannons, Spirit Stones - 200
5x Fire Dragons - Wave Serpent w/dual Shuri-cannons, Spirit Stones - 200

3x Wasp Assault Walkers - 5x Scatter Lasers, 1x Shuri-cannon - 215
3x Wasp Assault Walkers - 5x Scatter Lasers, 1x Shuri-cannon - 215
3x Wasp Assault Walkers - 5x Scatter Lasers, 1x Shuri-cannon - 215
5x Dire Avengers - Wave Serpent w/dual Shuri-cannons, Spirit Stones - 180
5x Dire Avengers - Wave Serpent w/dual Shuri-cannons, Spirit Stones - 180

Hornet - 2x EML's, Spirit Stones - 105
Hornet - 2x EML's, Spirit Stones - 105
Hornet - 2x EML's, Spirit Stones - 105

Warp Hunter - Spirit Stones - 135
Warp Hunter - Spirit Stones - 135
Warp Hunter - Spirit Stones - 135

Total - 2500


Now I've got more durability in terms of scoring units but a little less firepower. So what do you guys think? The original eldar list #1 or the revised eldar list #2? More firepower or better scoring?
 
#6 · (Edited)
What is the mission? If its not seize ground or capture and control you might as well drop the guardian jetbikes. If its seize ground you may want to take something that can actually hold an objective. Like some DA in serpents. All I know is that I personally think the new walkers are more for fun and a good unit to round out the list. I wouldn't put all my money on them. Kind of like when people take 3x walkers in all 3 heavy support slots. Its a real gamble. I would try something like 3x walkers in 3 squads, like they said use different weapons on 1 of the walker to abuse allocations. Then instead of jetbikes id take 3 squads of 5 DA in wave serpents , with missiles hopefully. But do what you can. I look forward to this. I really am thinking about getting some of the new eldar units when they come out with the APOC book for them.


And my personal opinion is that Warp Hunter > Prism, Hornet > Vyper, Wasp> War Walker.
 
#9 ·
I like list #2, its an all comers, all mission type list. Which is my personal favorite kind. The last thing I would do is drop the stones on the warp hunter to take missiles instead of twin linked shuriken cannons. Missile launchers are good for 2500 as they give you the option to take down transports and hit some blocks of troops. With having twice the range.
 
#10 ·
I'm a little confused. Do you mean drop the stones on the warp hunters and get TL-EML's for the wave serpents? If I dropped stones on both the hunters and hornets, I could upgrade 3 wave serpets to TL-EML's.
 
#11 ·
Sorry, I can't think how could the second one be better. First has ways more firepower, and even more units able to contest (Eldar trickery) with those Jump Jets or whatever this insane Wasp wargear in fact is. With reserves, option not to use Autarchs ablity (as stated in codex I believe), a bit of terrain (it's easier to hide some three jetbikes, and they can move pretty quickly without transport too, and won't be so affected by explosions) I just can't see superiority of second list. Number of scoring untis is the same - the major difference is that they can be targeted quite easily. If I tried to include more scorings I'd exchange a single Wasp squadron from the first roster and take another Bike min-max and Holo-Fields for Warp Hunters (gonna need them in order to wither the firepower, and are pretty good last-ditch contesting victory stealers too). IMO.
 
#14 · (Edited)
As per your suggestion:

Eldar List #3
Autarch - Fusion Gun - 80
Farseer - Guide, Runes of Warding, Singing Spear - 98

5x Fire Dragons - Wave Serpent w/dual Shuri-cannons, Spirit Stones - 200
5x Fire Dragons - Wave Serpent w/dual Shuri-cannons, Spirit Stones - 200
5x Fire Dragons - Wave Serpent w/dual Shuri-cannons, Spirit Stones - 200

3x Wasp Assault Walkers - 5x Scatter Lasers, 1x Shuri-cannon - 215
3x Wasp Assault Walkers - 5x Scatter Lasers, 1x Shuri-cannon - 215
3x Wasp Assault Walkers - 5x Scatter Lasers, 1x Shuri-cannon - 215
3x Guardian Jetbikes - 1x Shuri-cannon - 76
3x Guardian Jetbikes - 1x Shuri-cannon - 76
3x Guardian Jetbikes - 1x Shuri-cannon - 76

Hornet - Bright Lance, EML, Spirit Stones - 115 (had extra points)
Hornet - Bright Lance, EML, Spirit Stones - 115
Hornet - 2x EML's, Spirit Stones - 105

Warp Hunter - Holo-fields, Spirit Stones - 170
Warp Hunter - Holo-fields, Spirit Stones - 170
Warp Hunter - Holo-fields, Spirit Stones - 170

Total - 2491
 
#16 ·
From what I've seen, it appears shuriken cannons and scatter lasers are the way to go. Starcannons are incredibly overpriced and most infantry can get cover from it. Moreoever, it doesn't threaten light tanks as well as scatter lasers or shuri-cannons due to the volume of shots. What works with eldar tactics is concentrated fire by massed S6 shots onto 1 doomed unit at a time. That's how you kill things the eldar way, or so I believe.
 
#22 · (Edited)
Apologies, but the match has been post-poned this weekend as I have been sick. We will try to do it later in the week.
 
#23 · (Edited)
against meq a scatter laser has 1/2 shots miss, 5/6 wound of the hits wound but only 1/3 are not saved by armor. so 12 shots, 6 hit, 5 wound, maybe 2 are not saved. against a monstrous creature like a trygon, it drops to 1 or less, maybe two for all three walkers. dual shurikan cannon is 6 shots, 3 hit, 2 wound and less than 1 wound on meq per walker. Star cannons get 4 shots, 2 hits, almost 2 wounds and you ignore most armor. meaning you got 5-6 wounds for 3 walkers against MEQ and possibly a dead trygon. better armor penetration by a little too, worth a little more if you ask me since most armies are MEQ
 
#24 ·
@Eirc

Of course they don't fight. Neither do Jetbikes. Alas I put more value in Dragons and Serpents then just Serpents. AV12 tank with single twin-linked weapon and perhaps Shurikannon at more than 100 points as primary fighting platform? I don't buy that, especcialy as those scorings are transport dependant. Guardians on the other way combine ability to fight with possibility of being transported...

I see your point, though I firmly believe that Jetbikes would be way better in this roster. Alas, I'm curious to see how Jy manages to take the fight to Wolves with this lists and perhaps prove which one of us is wrong. :)

@Prisoner

Ah, finnaly I get to repeat my beloved sentence.

In the grim darkness of the 41st millenium there is always cover. Oh, and did I mention already that AP does nothing in terms of helping you busting vehicles? And guess what? starcannons are WAY overpriced...
 
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