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Acid blood rules question

3K views 17 replies 9 participants last post by  Karrain 
#1 ·
Ok, I'm not sure wheter this should go in Rules Help or not...but my synapse is telling me to put it here.

I've been reading over my Codex, building up a list that hopefully won't get killed by Exorcists on turn three, and came across some ambiguous wording in the rules for Acid Blood. In the Codex it states:

"For every unsaved wound a model with acid blood suffers in close combat, the enemy unit that struck the blow must pass an initiative test or suffer a wound."

Does this mean: a) That only one test is made for the entire unit per wound?
b) That only models in base contact with the upgraded creature
take the test per wound?
c) Every model in the enemy unit takes the test per wound?
 
#3 ·
Umm...which of the three is correct, sorry? I'm not sure you specified.

I've found Blood/lash good but a positive nightmare when combined with Toxic Miasma, I almost don't need to make attacks with my Tyrant.
 
#4 ·
Well, my store uses the house rule every member takes a save and that EVERYONE in the unit does. As the "acid sprays".

Sorry for the unclear answer. Been a VERY long week at biology camp :p
 
#5 ·
The clear part is that the unit takes an Initiative test, one test per wound that your Tyranid suffers.

The unclear part is: How does a unit take an Initiative test? This is answered just barely good enough on page 3 of the Tyranid FAQ.

Q: When attacking models with the Acid Blood
biomorph, when are the Initiative tests taken?

A: Resolve any tests and remove any casualties at
the end of each Initiative step.
Thus the initiative you make the check against is dependent upon when the blow was struck. It's safe to assume that the usual wound allocation rules remain in effect in case the acid blood manages to wound an enemy unit.
 
#6 ·
Sorry 6 maybe im having a slow day here, how does that show "an enemy unit" passing an initiative test? Isnt that just showing WHEN the unit takes the test? Or am i missing something?

This did come up a little while ago, i argued for it hitting all models on the grounds that Units themselves do not have charasteristics (its the models within them that do), thus do not have an initiative, so cannot take an initiative test. Meaning when it says "the enemy unit" it MUST be refering to every model comprising that unit.

I do remember there was a counter argument though. What it was, no idea. :D
 
#7 · (Edited)
Perhaps it's easiest to explain this with a contrived example.

I've got Trygon with acid blood and adrenal glands (and all 6 of its wounds at this point). It charges a unit of Tactical Marines led by a Space Marine Captain and a Librarian. Let's further assume the Librarian gets off The Quickening psyker power.

So, for this 1st assault phase, we have:

I10: Librarian
I5: Trygon and Captain
I4: Tactical Marines

Let's assume the librarian successfully hits and wounds the Trygon twice. Now the Librarian's unit must take two Initiative tests at I10. Which means that the Marine player rolls 2 dice and if any of them come up 6 (which is always a characteristic test failure) the Marine unit suffers a wound. Let's assume both tests are passed.

Now the Trygon and Captain fight at I5. Trygon hits and wounds 4 Marines, the Marine player allocates all wounds to normal Tacticals and they all die. The captain fights back and manages to wound the Trygon once. Now the Marine unit must take one Initiative test at I5. The die roll comes up a 6 and the wound gets allocated to another Tac who dies because armour saves aren't allowed.

Down at I4 5 Tacs are still alive, they get really lucky and manage to wound the Trygon one more time. Now the unit must make an Init test at I4. Dammit, the test fails (a 6 is rolled). This time the Marine player allocates the wound to the Captain, who is allowed to use his iron halo Invul save to attempt to save it, and gets lucky with a 5 ... no wound suffered.
 
#9 ·
I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on one point here, number 6. In close combat, independent characters act as individual units. As both the librarian and the captain are independent characters, I believe that they will have to make the initiative checks for the wounds they cause.

If I missed anything, please let me know. This would change things with my gaming group (which wouldn't be a problem, I just want to be fair).
 
#8 ·
"For every unsaved wound a model with acid blood suffers in close combat, the enemy unit that struck the blow must pass an initiative test or suffer a wound."
The unit suffers a wound (singular) unless it makes an initiative test using the majority value, allocated as normal.
Otherwise it would read "every model in the unit must pass an initiative test" or something to that effect.

If you are using lash/acid you'll also need to get more than half the target unit into base to base contact otherwise the majority (or highest value if there is no majority) will be used for the test.
 
#10 ·
I think you have a point there, Ainom. Not how my group has been playing it, but it may be we're all wrong!

The amendment to make to my extreme example then is where the acid blood wounds may be allocated. All else remains the same, however.
 
#12 ·
"For every unsaved wound a model with acid blood suffers in close combat, the enemy unit that struck the blow must pass an initiative test or suffer a wound."

Does this mean: a) That only one test is made for the entire unit per wound?
b) That only models in base contact with the upgraded creature
take the test per wound?
c) Every model in the enemy unit takes the test per wound?
A) is the correct answer. The unit takes 1 wound for every unsaved wound suffered by the model with acid blood. Thus, for example, a hive tyrant with only 4 wounds may only ever force the unit that caused those wounds to take 4 tests, which they can allocate on whichever 4 models within the unit.

Note that, as pointed out by AT, you would use majority initiative when taking these tests, as the acid blood player cannot choose which models to allocate these wounds on.
 
#13 ·
Note that, as pointed out by AT, you would use majority initiative when taking these tests, as the acid blood player cannot choose which models to allocate these wounds on.
No. As I pointed out, the FAQ states that init tests are made right away at the initiative step that the acid blood successfully inflicts a wound.
 
#17 ·
I don't know what the "spirit of the rule" is here. I can imagine it being just as "fluffy" and "true to the spirit of the rules" to work both the way I have stated it and against majority Initiative. Either seems reasonable to me from that standpoint.

So I want to stick to what the RAW states. You take the Init test at that Initiative step. That's the Initiative you test at, therefore, right?

I admit I may be wrong. (I admitted earlier this is a very muddy rule.) But, to me, that interpretation is closest to the RAW as GW has presented it.

I really don't have much invested in this rule, since I think Acid Blood is all but entirely useless anyway and would never take it :rotfl: , but thought I'd throw my take on it in there. I leave the rest up to the rest of you to sort out. I don't think it's worth the bother, personally. ;)
 
#18 ·
Yeah, probably not worth it...I'll take toxic miasma instead(unless that too is useless)...still, thanks for all the feedback guys, I hope that someone from GW has read this and goes about updating the FAQ. Even if Acid Blood was used people wouldn't be able to with such ambiguous wording.
 
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