Eldar non-mech lists - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

Welcome to Librarium Online!

Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!

Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!


Register Now!

User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 23
  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    1 (x0)

    Eldar non-mech lists

    I have just started to play warhammer 40k again after a 5 year break and have been reading through the forums over the past few weeks.

    it seems the majority of eldar players are using mech lists running with Banshees / Fire Dragons / Sometimes Scorpions with Dire Avengers as troop choice.

    Generally i dont like following the trend so i was hoping to hear of any other lists that people may have used that are effective. I'm hoping to give my Warp Spiders and Swooping Hawks a run so any information in regards to good supporting units for spiders and hawks or strats as i have a 2k battle vs Tyranid in a couple of weeks.

    I know this isn't much to go off but any help would be appreciated

    <--- newbie

    Thanks
    Grackus


  2. Remove Advertisements
    Librarium-Online.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    It came from the warp... Fleeting Æther's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Age
    25
    Posts
    458
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    101 (x2)

    Well I'll be brutally honest, Swooping Hawks are not all that great at anything in particular, but Spiders can be used in a more casual game quite well.

    Autarch - 125
    ---Fusion Gun, Warp Jump Generator, Power Weapon, Mandiblasters
    8 Warp Spiders - 218
    ---Exarch, Dual Spinners, Powerblades, Withdraw

    For 343 points you get a total of 10 WS5-6 Power Weapon attacks on the charge which with Doom on the target can take out a decent amount of MEQ's after blasting them with a melta and 18 S6 shots. After all of that you'll probably have 1-3 MEQ's left that you can finish off in their assault phase to avoid being shot in their shooting phase.

    This combo is not all that great in heavy mech enviroments, but you can split off the Autarch to blow up the vehicle, shoot the passengers with the Spiders, then assault with both in a pinch.
    Scratchbuilding Fire Prism Crystals
    2K Mech Eldar in 2010: 25Win/4Lose/8Draw

  4. #3
    LO Zealot Farseer Macleod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Isle of Lewis
    Age
    29
    Posts
    1,134
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    146 (x4)

    Well depending on the points level of the game Wraithlords can be effective. In games of 1500pts or less there is not really a lot of heavy weapons available to take out 2 or 3 of these guys quickly and if you throw the avatar into the mix...basically, if your opponent does manage to kill these guys off then anything else you take will be pretty much unharmed.

  5. #4
    Son of LO ikbuh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Everywhere and Nowhere
    Posts
    2,104
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    115 (x6)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleeting Æther View Post
    This combo is not all that great in heavy mech enviroments, but you can split off the Autarch to blow up the vehicle, shoot the passengers with the Spiders, then assault with both in a pinch.
    The Autarch would not be able to assualt because he shot at the vehicle. The rules are weird like that. The Spiders would be able to do whatever they wanted.

    Wraithlords are absolutely amazing in lower points games, and can still be viable at higher points games if you have 3 and they can use the single shot weapons very well because they are BS4. The most common thing to take is EML/Bright lance, but Scatter Lasers/Shuriken cannons are also good. Always give them two flamers over the shuriken launchers, you'll probably get more out of it.

    The biggest problem with WLs right now is the amazing amount of poison and rending available right now. Don't even think about using them against Nids, Dark Eldar (who can also spam enough Dark Lances to kill them all turn 1 or two), and most of all the new GKs. S8 heavy 4 Rending on their Dreads. You might as well remove them from the board and have them start with 3 extra KPs.

    Anyway, other things that work well on foot are Scorpians because they have infiltrate and 3+ save, and Reapers because they have range and again, a 3+ save. Harliquins are another good choice as they have Veil of Tears, which will get them across the board with relative ease. Troopswise? Well, you could take Defenders, but they're pretty bad. Wraith Guard are sturdy enough, but lack the range and 10 is very expensive (400+ with the warlock), but they are also expensive on the wallet. I have a squad of 5 that I got for "cheap" on Ebay, and it was still costly. Dire Avengers are another option, but are kinda squishy without a ride. I would suggest Jet Bikes. They're fast, somewhat sturdy, get shuriken cannons, and are pretty cheap and easy to hide.
    40k: Silver Angels of Our Martyred Lady 7/2/3 - Daemons of the Great Squiggle! 3/1/0
    Fantasy: Windhost of Athel'Loren 2/0/0 - Daemons of Another Great Squiggle! 0/0/0
    Warmahordes: Legion of Everblight (Absylonia)

  6. #5
    It came from the warp... Fleeting Æther's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Age
    25
    Posts
    458
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    101 (x2)

    Yes the Autarch would be able to assault the occupants of the transport. Page 67 of the small rulebook second paragraph under "Destroyed - explodes!"

    "...However, if a transport is destroyed (either result) by a ranged attack, the unit that shot it may assault the now disembarked passengers, if it is allowed to assault according to the assault rules."
    Scratchbuilding Fire Prism Crystals
    2K Mech Eldar in 2010: 25Win/4Lose/8Draw

  7. #6
    Member TheBurningHand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    238
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    19 (x1)

    If you footslog, building a list around an avatar/farseer combo is a good idea. Avatar gives you a fearless bubble, and farseer buffs your troops/fortunes your avatar.

    Pathfinders are super resilient, but dont expect them to make their points back.

    Defenders can be good, but only if they are low on the priority list/aka your opponent is shooting at your other stuff.

    Wraithguard are only good imo if you can fortune them with a conceal warlock. Otherwise they are just too easy to kill (3+ save is just not that dependable).

    If I ran footsloggers, Id prolly use:

    Avatar
    Farseer
    Defenders
    Scorpions
    Wraithlords
    Dark Reapers
    Pathfinders
    Harlequins

    Id really consider taking a tank or two though, just for some fire dragon anti-tank.

    Stay away from:
    Swooping Hawks
    Vypers
    Dire Avengers
    Banshees

    These just dont work that well unless they are meched.


    The Hand that guides.


  8. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Age
    36
    Posts
    1,271
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputation
    53 (x3)

    Foot slogging is getting harder and harder to manage. 5th edition made vehicle much harder to kill than before, and since then new codex's have tended to throw in new and potent vehicle that can close quickly with a gunline as well as a whole lot more anti infantry templates. These days even Dark Eldar are spamming pie plates.

    If you want to be different, wraithguard might be the way to go. They benifit from the new universal run rule unlike most of the rest of the army, can handle many "anti infantry" attacks, and they're expensive enough in real money that you never really saw many armies built around them even back in the craftworld days.

    I'd back them up with tough stuff like an avatar and wraithlords (probalby with lances) in order to overload the weapons the enemy has that are good against such units. Armies that are spamming autocannons (or in the case of Tyranids the very popular impaler, venom, and rupture cannons) and such to take down transports are going to have a hard time against those 3+ saves.

    I could see spiders being useful in this case by dropping down and taking out annoying things like plasma cannon dev squads or bassies. If their target is kind of on its own the spiders might even survive.

    Otherwise I'd suggest, especially against Tyranids, having some solid countercharge (or pre-emptive charge) on the table, harlequins seem to be the obvious choice, using a screen of wraithguard to keep them safe behind their viel and posing a solid threat to MCs with thier kisses, invul save, and high initiative. So long as they have the charge they're even great against stealers.
    Last edited by sunnyside; March 30th, 2011 at 18:51.

  9. #8
    Senior Member niraco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Romania
    Posts
    1,273
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    168 (x4)

    I`ll respond starting Burning post and i`ll edit for efficiency and working together elements not lonely good units

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBurningHand View Post
    If you footslog, building a list around an avatar/farseer combo is a good idea. Avatar gives you a fearless bubble, and farseer buffs your troops/fortunes your avatar. Fearless is always good for Eldar so you don`t run from multiple tank shocks and enemy shooting especially since our guys that fear to die go to war in tshirts

    Pathfinders are super resilient, but dont expect them to make their points back. they are resilient only against noobie opponents. in rest they will die to the first flamer unit that comes by to take their objective. But they can be annoying if you have enought other troops to hold objectives and finders are in the cordon "hello i`m here to die"

    Defenders can be good, but only if they are low on the priority list/aka your opponent is shooting at your other stuff. they are rsonable. stormies are better even on foot

    Wraithguard are only good imo if you can fortune them with a conceal warlock. Otherwise they are just too easy to kill (3+ save is just not that dependable). too expensive and they die to ap3 weaponry even with conceal which is way not reliable

    If I ran footsloggers, Id prolly use:

    Avatar
    Farseer
    Defenders use 15+ models melta stormies instead
    Scorpions
    Wraithlords
    Dark Reapers
    Pathfinders
    Harlequins
    Burning forgot spiders.

    Id really consider taking a tank or two though, just for some fire dragon anti-tank.no tanks (cause they will explode because you have way too few) and take foot dragons instead in large squads

    Stay away from:
    Swooping Hawks
    Vypers
    Dire Avengers
    Banshees

    These just dont work that well unless they are meched. Swooping hawks don`t work at all but that is my oppinion
    Hight elf and Craftworld Eldar army project pics heavy: linky

  10. #9
    Son of LO ikbuh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Everywhere and Nowhere
    Posts
    2,104
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    115 (x6)

    Personally, I think Spiders should have rending, but that might make them too good. Spiders are just one of those units where they are so cool, but there's just something better. If they had an AP value they'd be great for busting transports, but they don't. however, they're still good, especially if you're considering a footslogging list. Reapers fall into this category, but if you're not looking at Prisms, then there's no reason not to take them unless you're running three WLs like me... Or at least that's the plan when I have money =D
    40k: Silver Angels of Our Martyred Lady 7/2/3 - Daemons of the Great Squiggle! 3/1/0
    Fantasy: Windhost of Athel'Loren 2/0/0 - Daemons of Another Great Squiggle! 0/0/0
    Warmahordes: Legion of Everblight (Absylonia)

  11. #10
    Member sequentius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Age
    30
    Posts
    161
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    29 (x1)

    *sigh* this is why I hate internet forums. The same knowledge gets repeated over and over until its gospel. I've seen "crap" lists in the hands of good players hammer internet builds simply because they knew their target priority well and knew the strengths and weaknesses of their own build. Christ, I've beaten landraider/terminator span with nothing but jetbikes (and things mounted on jetbikes).

    That said, this is what I suggest:
    Its undeniable that eldar are fragile. we have very survivable tanks to make up for this. If you want to footslog, that means you are losing that survivability and need to replace it with something else.

    Units to avoid when footslogging:
    Fire dragons - can't get delivery to their target, will get blown to smithereens
    Banshees - same as above.
    Vypers - vypers got stuffed this edition because gw wanted to sell more war walkers. this is a fact. it's possibly the most difficult unit to use well in an eldar army.

    Everything else that isn't a tank is viable for you. Depending on your feelings about it, war walkers may or may not be off limits. I'd advise taking them, for reasons I'll state below.

    In any list, you need the following:
    MEQ killing power
    TEQ killing power
    GEQ killing power
    Light vehicle busting (mid strength multi shot)
    Heavy vehicle busting (lascannons etc. Melta)
    MC killing (sniper, poison, heavy weapons)

    As you can guess, there is some crossover between some of these sections. Eldar are fortunate because we are blessed with a plethora of platforms for multishot s6 weaponry - war walkers, serpants, guardian platforms, warp spiders, wraithlords. S6 is good because it wounds MTGEQs on 2s so you can load up on wounds and kill through volume of fire. This is especially important in 5th edition where there is a lot of cover, so the traditional ways of killing heavily armoured troops (low ap weapons) are less effective. S6 is also strong enough to penetrate AV11, so you can kill lightly armoured transports. If your platforms are mobile (which most eldar platforms are), you can get to the side/rear armour of more heavily armoured vehicles, which will most likely be AV11 or even 10. You can also reduce the effectiveness of AV12 vehicles with enough fire.
    where eldar are not blessed is with long range anti tank firepower. we have the brightlance, the pulse laser, the EML and the prism cannon. the brightlance on almost all platforms is very expensive. the platform for the pulse laser itself is also expensive, the eml struggles with AV13 and 14 unless in large numbers, which again is prohibitively expensive and the prism cannon is unreliable due to scatter. combine that with increased survivability in this edition for vehicles and you can see that eldar long range high strength firepower is at premium cost.
    this is not a problem if you have other ways of killing these vehicles - which is why fire dragons are so popular in this edition. in your footslogging army, you will not have this luxury and will need to find other ways of popping that land raider/storm raven/leman russ. fortunately, we have this - mobile strength 6, mobile bs5 fusion guns, mobile singing spears, haywire grenades, wraithcannons. all of these require some finesse to use but are effective in done correctly.

    a common misconception with footslogging is that you will be slow. just a quick look at the units you can take proves this not to be the case:
    - scorpions infiltrate/outflank
    - hawks deep strike/jump infantry
    - spiders deep strike/jump infantry
    - war walkers outflank
    - jetbikes

    with a footslogging list, you either need to be elite and hit hard and fast, or you need to horde up with numbers. or just be terribly hard to kill. Eldar can do all three. I would say the first playstyle is probably the most difficult, but potentially the most rewarding.
    elite: fast moving aspects (spiders, scorpions, spears)
    horde: Avatar (fearless bubble) + lots of guardians. Though dire avengers with pw/shimmershield and defend make excellent tarpits against their core equivalents in other armies (you tarpit in the hope you can get your countercharging avater/scorpions in)
    hard to kill: wraithguard wraithwall. The rest of your army needs to be able to deal with hordes though.

    finally, as in all lists, but potentially most importantly so with eldar - your list needs to have synergy and some redundancy. the problem i see with many lists that have fire dragons is that if the dragons die, people simply have no way to counter heavy armour.

    If i were to build a foot based list, i would do the following:
    - take advantage of the massive amount of s6 fire we can put out. this will handle MEQ, GEQ and small TEQ units and also allow you to target transports carrying units you don't want to be around (ie: anything)
    - make sure i can kill or stop that land raider/storm raven/AV14 thing when i need to
    - be aware of target priority. with footsloggers, it's ok to let the enemy fire lascannons at your guys on foot rather than expensive tanks (more true for guard than eldar but not much you can do about that). what is most dangerous to you is anti infantry fire - pieplates, heavy bolters, mid strength multishot weapons. take these out first. and for god's sake, focus fire on what needs to die until it does. I've lost count of games i've seen where people fire a couple of shots into the land raider, fail to kill it, and fire the rest of their anti tank guns at slow moving dreadnoughts which won't be a problem for at least 2 turns.

    Units to consider as footsloggers:
    Avatar - counter charge, fearless aura, hard as nails

    Farseer/Eldrad - powers will be especially important. from fortuning your tarpits, to dooming major threats

    JetSeer council - "footslogging" armies really benefit from these guys. They have their reputation for a reason. cut through tanks like butter, can survive protracted combats and generally be where you need them to be. my old reliable.

    Autarch - some of the units i will suggest have different modes of entry to the battle which can give you tactical superiority. Autarchs let you get them where you need quicker

    Dire Avengers - heard someone say they don't work without a transport. there's some truth in this, but don't be put off in using them. units with pw/ss and defend can hold their own for a turn, especially with farseer support (doom or fortune) and with a mandihat/pw autarch attached will be a good tarpit to hold things up while your avatar arrives to smoosh them.

    Storm Guardians - same principle as multiple s6 weaponry. many many attacks in combat on the charge for not many points. add an enhance warlock and they make a nice countercharge unit against the likes of tactical squads (you go first in combat).

    Defender Guardians - 60 defenders gives you 6 scatter lasers, which gives you 24 shots/turn. best used with an Avatar and a lot of backup because they can and will die. i'd still take DAs in a footslogging list over these guys.

    Pathfinders - i like using pathfinders when the rest of my army is very fast because i don't have to worry too much about protecting guardians/using an avatar. multiple 5 man units so they can't all be flamed out of their cover. don't be afraid to go to ground.

    Jetbikes - best thing about these guys is last turn objective grabs. they can also do the jetbike slide: pop out, fire shuricannon at a transport, pop back out of LOS.

    Scorpions - good mainstay combat unit. can outflank, meaning they are useful at disrupting gunlines, taking out pesky heavy weapons teams. on the charge, they've even got a shot at killing tanks with the exarch's biting blade or scorpion's claw. you can also use them as a countercharge unit for your footsloggers.

    Harlequins - if you're only looking for a countercharge, these guys are better than scorpions. expensive though.

    Warp Spiders - these guys have caught some heat on this thread and genuinely i don't know why. they are one of the most solid units we have in our codex - they're fast, they can deepstrike and they put out a horrendous amount fo firepower. they don't have AP boo bloody hoo. the only ap that matters is 3 or 1. if you're firing at the back/side of a tank (which you should be with their speed), you'll get penetrating hits. and you'll get enough to immobilise/wreck. they make their way into virtually every army i write because they are always solid. they work well in hybrid and footslogging lists.

    Swooping Hawks - i'm trying these guys out because i love the models. in shooting, they need doom. they're very useful for putting that couple of extra wounds on already weakened units (say, bladestormed or warp spidered ones). i have been trying to finesse mine as tank hunters with intercept. they have claimed a land raider. however, this is quite difficult to do and you need other priority targets to do it. not for the faint hearted.

    Shining spears - yet another potentially overcosted unit. ok on their own, great with an autarch. these guys are countercharge support. best used in conjunction with scorpions or, my personal favourite, the jetseer council. multicharge units with the council and spend the next 2 turns bouncing in and out of combat with the spears.

    War walkers - purists would say that war walkers shouldn't be in a footslogging lists because they are a vehicle. Pah! I say. they die just as easily as infantry to a round of bolter fire. however, the ability to outflank with 24 s6 shots is immense and they are cost efficient for their points. seriously consider these boys.

    Dark reapers - footslogging is about the only damn list reapers will fit into, which is a shame because i have a real soft spot for them. they need the exarch. i can't remember off the top of my head if the tempest launcher is barrage (thereby potentially denying cover saves). if it's not, you need crack shot. if it is, take fast shot. if you can catch a marine squad in the open (blocking the back exit of a rhino then wrecking it, for example), open up and watch your opponent cry. a unit that needs very careful placement, good fire lanes and other high priority targets to work but when they do it's pretty damn impressive.

    Wraithlords - come in the "hard to kill" category. not as scary as they were last edition with all the poison/rending floating around, and they're probably the only viable target for anti tank guns. but a couple of wraithlords and an avatar provides a good screen for your other troops. good platforms for BL/EML, but standard swordlords would be good as they and the avatar can now run

    TLR – ignore people telling you to mech up if you want to be a footslogger. It’s doable, but requires a lot of finesse, intelligence in army design and in play but when it works it’s very rewarding. Practice practice practice and refine your list to where you know it inside out.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts