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  1. #1
    Senior Member Aun'Vre's Avatar
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    A fire warrior-like HQ?

    You know, I was thinking; every other race has an HQ pretty much the same as their standard HQ choice in terms of size, armour and general ability. Tyranid prime, captain, farseer, chaos lord, greater daemon etc. and the only thing tau has that isn't a waste of points ends up quite expensive after upgrades. I am, of course, talking about the XV8 commanders. The bare minimum you can spend on this obligatory HQ is 58 points, by giving him a drone controller, a blacksun filter and a target lock. Of course this is complete rubbish, a more commonly seen build is the fireknife commander setup, which is a plasma rifle and missile pod with a HWMT and TA, costing a grand total of 97 points. Some people want a cheaper HQ than that if they are min maxing or want to take a lot of a particular aspect of the codex. I wa thinking the following:

    Cadre leader - 35 points (modeled as fire warrior, i.e. on the same base)
    WS BS S T W I LD SV
    5 5 4 4 3 5 10 3+

    Options:
    -One weapon system (may not be twin linked)
    -One support system, except iridium armour, advanced stabalisation field, multi tracker, or vectored retro thrusters
    -Any hard wired systems except a failsafe detonator or an ejection system
    -Either a pulse carbine or a pulse rifle for free, in leiu of a weapon system
    -A rail rifle for 10 points, in leiu of a weapon system
    -EMP grenades for 5 points
    -Stealth field generator for 15 points
    -Honour blade for 10 points
    -Jet pack for 15 points
    -Bonding knife for free

    Special rules:
    -As per etheral, except any fire warrior squad may be upgraded as per Honour Guard rules.
    -Personal Elite: A single squad of fire warriors which must be accompanied by the Cadre Leader may choose to be further upgraded to a personaly trained guard of fire warriors, gaining access to an optional burst cannon, 3+ save and BS5 for an additional 6 points a model. These otherwise have the same unit size and options.

    I modeled a commander without a suit, and he looked pretty cool, but I never got to use it. I always wanted a commander more on a level with the lowly fire warrior, and I wondered if anyone had the same feeling.

    "Victory is sweet, blood is sweeter." - Aun'Vre

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  3. #2
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    35 pts for 3 wounds, 3+sv and bs5? I'll take one lol

  4. #3
    Senior Member Aun'Vre's Avatar
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    So you think it's too cheap? How about 50 points?
    "Victory is sweet, blood is sweeter." - Aun'Vre

  5. #4
    Junior Member A.T.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aun'Vre View Post
    So you think it's too cheap? How about 50 points?
    They are very similar to an unequipped 5th ed SM captain, so worth about 80-100 points given the cost of a tau shield generator and the various bonus perks the character gets.
    You forgot to include an attack stat btw.

    35 points does get you power armour and BS5, but with these stats and none of the perks:
    WS BS S T W I A LD SV
    _4 _5 3 3 2 4 2 _9 3+


    I don't know how you are getting a points value of anything close to (let alone less than) an Ethereal for a model with the words 'As per etheral' in it's list of special rules along with a point or more on pretty much every stat, power armour, force bonuses, and a huge selection of decent wargear.

  6. #5
    Senior Member Aun'Vre's Avatar
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    But etherals are significantly underpowered, so he is effectively a pumped up etheral. As I said, and in hindsight, he is a bit too cheap. I want him, and a fire warrior unit, to be decent in combat because it is a stark contrast to the tau's typical stereotype. Maybe reduced to T3, but pumped up to 75 points? And as for attacks, because I want him to be good in CC, I was thinking 3. He is effectively a shas'o without a suit, trained in commando combat. Also, to add a sabotage aspect to him, I want to give him the ability to infiltrate for 20 points, and the squad he is with can have it too for 5 points per model. And if an enemy comes within 2" of where he infiltrated place the large blast template over that spot, resolving the hit at str5 ap5. This costs another 10 points.

    I want him to end up like Tau rambo or arnold shwartsnegger. Here is my next, more balanced go:

    Commando - 75
    WS BS S T W I A LD SV
    5 5 4 3 3 5 3 10 3+

    Options:
    -One weapon system (may not be twin linked)
    -One support system, except iridium armour, advanced stabalisation field, multi tracker, or vectored retro thrusters
    -Any hard wired systems except a failsafe detonator or an ejection system
    -Either a pulse carbine or a pulse rifle for free, in leiu of a weapon system
    -A rail rifle for 10 points, in leiu of a weapon system
    -EMP grenades for 5 points
    -Stealth field generator for 15 points
    -Honour blade for 10 points
    - Plasma inducted blade (power weapon) for 25 points
    -Jet pack for 15 points
    -Bonding knife for free
    -Infiltrate special rule for 20 points
    -May be given Proximity activated Plasma charge for 10 points

    Special rules:
    -As per etheral, except any fire warrior squad may be upgraded as per Honour Guard rules.
    -Personal Elite: A single squad of fire warriors which must be accompanied by the Cadre Leader may choose to be further upgraded to a personaly trained guard of fire warriors, gaining access to an optional burst cannon, 3+ save and BS5 for an additional 6 points a model. These otherwise have the same unit size and options.
    -Plasma charge: When infiltrating, place a marker over where the commando infiltrates. Any enemy model that comes within 2" of this marker sets off the device. Place the large blast template over the marker. Resolve the hit at str5 ap5. Then remove the marker.

    So for the ssame price as a basic space marine commander you can effectively take a commander with a power weapon less 1 toughness. Fairly balanced, or still over powered?
    "Victory is sweet, blood is sweeter." - Aun'Vre

  7. #6
    Senior Member Astantia's Avatar
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    Points costs must be considered based on what you are bringing to the army as a whole. You are effectively giving the Tau a space marine commander, and the option to take a squad of space marines, allowing us to act as space marines with really big guns. If a Space Marine commander had the option of taking a Broadside or a Crisis Suit or a Railgun, how many points would that be 'worth' to a commander?

    Every army is balanced towards itself, and points costs are not just based on what each individual soldier brings to the battlefield. They are influenced by what an army CANNOT do without this specific unit. And what Tau CANNOT do is fight in an assault. They aren't supposed to. The points cost in the codex are balanced to an army that WILL lose in an assault.
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    Senior Member Aun'Vre's Avatar
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    I KNOW that tau aren't meant to assault, that's WHY I made this thread. I want tau to be a bit more like marines because they are meant to be better than IG at shooting. I mean, fire warriors are twice as much as guard for one better armour and one less WS. I don't think this is worth it. Also, he isn't a sapce marine commander, he still only has T3. Lasguns wound half the time. Not as durable as you might think. Plus, he only has a 3+. He cannot possibly have anything better that that. He can't take a railgun, or a battlesuit, or anything unreasonable. I intended him to be a watered down marine commander. He is less durable than 3 marines, for significantly more points. I don't think 75 points is unreasonable. Sure he's good in combat and can boost the ability of the army considerably, but the cost mounts up. 2 squads of fire warriors with the honour guard upgrade is another 50 points, nearly enough to buy another half the squad again.

    Besides, you've only picked holes. Try patching some up, you sound incredibly negative. If you don't like the idea, don't post in this thread.
    "Victory is sweet, blood is sweeter." - Aun'Vre

  9. #8
    Member camarodragon's Avatar
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    I like the option for a fire warrior HQ, but the commando route is fluffly the worng way of going about it IMHO. Kroot are much more adept and made for that sort of situation, Tua know that and would use them as such.

    A Fire warrior HQ wouldn't have much better stats (perhaps 1+ws,bs,I,A) than the average fire warrior but use his Technology to perhaps enable his squad for some special abilities. Scouting, +1 BS (enhanced optics on the squad), maybe a superior plasma gun available only when he is fielded.

    A Rambo unit, I would not see him as. There are too many other forces out there that are stronger, faster, tougher. The last place a Tau unit wants to be is stuck in combat slugging it out. With 5th ed. rules and the way combat goes, they quickly find themselves getting swept.

    Tau should be the ones bringing the biggest baddest guns and defensive measures to the party. Letting the Kroot do the slugging and slowing down of the enemy, and the tau shooting them down is the tau way.

    BTW I think Tau should have a +1 BS to every tau warrior. Their technology is so vast yet they cant shoot better than a guardsman.
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  10. #9
    Senior Member Aun'Vre's Avatar
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    A how about a sniper? Rail rifle and Bs5 basic, all other troops have +1 bs for free, and unit he is with has bs5 for 4 points a model and up to 6 rail rifles for 10 points each?
    "Victory is sweet, blood is sweeter." - Aun'Vre

  11. #10
    Senior Member Serran's Avatar
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    Consider making him more flimsy, give him stealth fields and the stealth special rule. Allow his entire squad to take Rail Rifles at 10 pts each, and make them all Pathfinders.

    Pathfinders are the closest things to Commandos the Tau themselves have outside of suit bearing XV-15/25s. Give him and his squad you defensive snare, maybe photon and EMP grenades and leave them at 4+ save. The stealth field is not so great on our suits because they only have short ranged weaponry... but a 36" STR6 AP3 weapon hidden in a stealth field is deadly. Especially with 13 of them. You will not get a Marine tough as nails unit, you will get a scalpel unit that could remove the above mentioned Marine Captain in the blink of a turn. This unit would rely on remaining away from combat or well defended by allied troopers, yet have some serious punch to add to the field. That is the Tau way.

    I do however like the idea of a commander down on the ground with the grunts.

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