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Good afternoon from the east coast,
Regardless of this codex creep, I'm interested in starting an Eldar force. Quite a few models have drawn me to this decision, such as the Banshees, Scorpions, Reapers, Dragons, and Avengers. I like the idea of rangers, and the ability to have 2 Farseers...
My concern is with the transport-spam of 5th, and I wonder if I can create a list including the squads I enjoy so much. I'm aware I'll need more than these squads to make my list work, as I expect wave serpents, falcons, and prisms.
I don't have the codex currently, and would like my question answered before doing so.
All advice, suggestions, opinions, etc are welcome!
Thanks in advance.
I like you enjoy playing eldar as well despite the aging codex. I really like alot of the models and the ideas behind them though some options aren't as viable (hawks, spears). All our elite choices aren't bad, but I am guilty of just fielding dragons when it comes to tournaments. I always have a farseer, its the first thing I write down on paper. As for making your list work, most of your options only are effective by buying a wave serpent for them. Banshees, fire dragons, and avengers all need wave serpents. The dark reapers are a nice unit, but it takes up a precious heavy support slot and doesn't fit mech eldar. The reason I don't field them. You pretty much buy them for the exarch, but a dude with BS 5 firing two missles or ignoring smoke launchers can deal with transports.
As far as options for cracking transports we have fire dragons, wave serpents, falcons, fire prisms, seer councils, war walkers, dark reapers, wraithlords, swooping hawks, vipers, and autarchs (with fusion gun). I hope you noticed, but most of that list is our heavy support so choose wisely. It is entirely possible to field a decent list with those units you named.
While you have it right regarding the current metagame, there will probably be a whole new edition in a year or so, there are rumors about a flyer thing dropping sometime soonish, a bunch of Imperial armor stuff, and the constant new codex thing going on (necrons next?) that shifts the metagame. So there is something to be said for getting units you'll enjoy playing regardless. In an ycase strongly consider magnets or something, you want to leave yourself options. That even goes for infantry in many cases (I'd leave warlocks open to both spears and blades for example)
That said farseers, dragons, and DA (all in serpents) are generally considered the "core" of our army. Though it seems you have to shake the mold a little if you really want to win. Also I've been seeing a lot of wraithguard in tourney's, possibly because once fortuned they laugh off all the lower AP anti-transport shooting we're seeing a lot of these days, and they can put a hurting on vehicles and MCs.
Scorps and especially banshees aren't really going to help with the vehicle issue. Though their transports can pop vehicles. And often some CC is needed to actually win. While some shooty units are useful, Eldar aren't going to win long range shoot outs against shooty armies, we win by getting in within 12" and using our short ranged stuff.
Reapers could actually be decent in an anti-transport role. The exarc can lay down decent EML fire and the standard S5 weapons can at least threaten many transports, at least in the sides. Rangers could be a threat to transports between rending and AP1, and if they get to keep their cover save they can be hard to kill. That said, these units are not typically considered great buys due to their point cost.
Last edited by sunnyside; May 9th, 2011 at 22:37.
Most of my lists feature a squad each of dragons, banshees and scorpions, though the scorpions usually outflank. Sometimes I replace them with another squad of dragons, but it depends on my mood. I've had a lot of success with both of those loadouts, though the 2 squads of fire dragons is definitely the more competitive option. DAs are essential, as they are about our only troop choice worth taking (though it's worth it to take a squad of storm guardians too). On paper you could do well with jetbikes, but I've found them to be not so great in practice, as they are exactly as tough as space marines and more expensive. Plus they're expensive as hell ($15 for a 22 point model? No thank you!).
As far as Dark Reapers go, they suffer from the fact that most of our good stuff is in our heavy support section. Fire Prisms, Night Spinners, and War Walkers are all excellent units, and while I personally love Dreapers, they're just to expensive for what they bring to the table, and while they can be useful, it's just so much easier to get more milage out of the other 3 units I mentioned. I remember back in 3rd edition when I could run Swordwind and take these guys as troops.... Ahh those were the days....
Rangers/Pathfinders, sadly, are not that useful right now. I find that they tend to only make their points back Vs Nids or CSM/Demons, and despite their ability to sit on an objective in 2+ cover, it's only gonna last until some joker with a flamer or a chainsword gets close enough.
2 Farseers has a lot of merit to it. One of the Eldar's greatest strengths is our ability to re-roll dice, and while I haven't used it in a while, I'm thinking of trying to find ways to work Mind War into my competitive lists, though I don't know if I'll actually succeed in this endeavor, cause I just love Fortune and Doom so much. Doom is always gonna be useful. Fortune and guide will depend on your unit selection. I usually take a farseer with Doom and Fortune and put him with my banshees. In fact, the first thing I write down when making my list is Farseer with Doom and Runes of Warding. Great psychic defense and a power that will benefit your whole army for 95 pts. If you have points left over I'd try to give your farseers singing spears. In general they don't miss the extra attack in CC too much, and a S9 shot at BS5 is great for transport popping (then having your banshees assault the guys inside maybe? Food for thought). While I've taken dual Farseers in the past, lately I've been using my other HQ slot on an autarch with powersword, mandiblasters, and fusion gun. Then I stick him with a unit of storm guardians with a spear and 2 fusion guns. This gets you a reasonably capable anti-tank/assault/scoring unit, though it's by no means going to be your go-to unit for any of those situations. I'm also a big fan of Prince Yriel and will sing his praises at every possible opportunity, and lately I've even had some success using the Avatar. In a mech list (I know, I'm as shocked as you are).
Though while we're on the subject of Farseers, Eldrad tends to run a bit too expensive. Coupled with his inability to fleet, it's hard to find a place for him. Still, he slings a lot of mental weight around, so if your looking for maximum re-rolls, Eldrad and a Fortune/Doomseer will get you that.
Here's a tournament report from a rogue trader a few months back (Eldar at the Rogue Trader (2000 pts)), in which I use most of the units you're talking about. If I wasn't so concerned about my Composition score, the outflanking scorpions would probably have been replaced by a second fire dragon squad. Regardless, I did pretty well despite all 3 of my opponents not really caring at all about their comp scores, and considering I effectively had to do 2 annihilation missions (easily the Eldar's worst game type). Maybe that will answer some other questions you might have.
Good luck man!
The enemy's gate is down
If you want to win..you will buy 2 farseer models. 20-40 dire avengers. 2-4 boxes of dragons, 4-7 wave serpents, 2 prisms and either 3 war walkers or a night spinner. Magnetize the serpents and war walkers.
Then build a list that doesn't consist of all the wave serpents having shuriken cannon turrets. Pack everything in wave serpents and pray that you get some lucky rolls to pop some tanks. Then when the cargo unloads you can unload yours. Just dont be stupid about it.
Thats the quickest advice I can give without going into detail or talking your ear off.
Eldar -APOC- 6500 Points
Chaos Daemons -Fate Crusher- 3500 Points
Grey knights - 1000 Points
Thanks for your replies.
Rep all around.