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What in your opinion is the most cost effective unit the nids can field?
Not necessarily what does the most damage or even what wins the games most of the time but what gets the points you spent on it back in a hurry?
"Making its points back" is a concept that really doesnt apply to tyranids. The army has to work together, some units (like the Tyrannofex) will almost never make their points back. What they might do instead is destroy a couple of rhinos or other tank that was sat at the back of the board on the very first turn and you couldnt reach otherwise. Same with harpies. They're not there to kill tanks, you use them to stun them, stop them from shooting you, generally surpressing them. If it happens to blow up, great. But the idea is they stop the guns or the movment so your other stuff can clear up. A tervigon might not kill anything of note, but if it spends all game giving things FnP, and making your guants horrificly dangerous, its done a good job.
That being said, units that are very good at their job include:
Hive guard - the very definition of reasonably priced. Theyre not overpowerd and broken, but they are an efficent unit thats very good at transport killing
Toxin sac hormaguants - good at anti infantry.
Trygons - good at killing just about anything, unless its got a lot of forceweapons or powerfists.
Warriors - very good support unit, not much they cant do.
Tyrannofexs - Range, S10 firepower, and about as tough as it gets in 40k.
Deathleaper - the best bit of psychic defense we have going for us.
Biovores - great anti infantry artillery
Infact in all honesty most of the book is good at its job. Its a really ballanced codex. It might be easier to say what ISNT good rather than what is. That would include:
Rippers - just no. The definition of fail
Pyrovores - good at anti infantry... but in a book with a heavily fought over elites slot that does anti infantry very well anyway. Add to that the fact they're very short ranged... one best left clear most of the time.
Old one eye - costly, fragile (dont be fooled by that regen, hes just a carnifex) and slow.
The parasite of mortrex - bit fragile, and not that remarkable. The ripper spawning could be nice, but its very hard to get, and rippers arnt what youd call amazing anyway.
And a slightly contriversial one (and this is mostly IMHO) close combat carnifexs. Made somewhat redundant for me by trygons. Trygons have more attacks, better WS, more wounds, are faster, come with a gun for free, dont need to buy a pod to deep strike, can be synapse and are I4 all the time, not just when charging. The only advantage of the fex is its S9 (usually 10 ) which makes it good for popping landraiders and monoliths. But theres a bit of a problem if you need a carnifex to do that, as the ability to kill those should be built in elsewhere.
Your friendly neighbourhood gargantuan creature
Toxin sac hormaguants, 20 of these is the most effective unit we have bar none, sure it wont kill monoliths, sure it wont kill tanks and sure they have their weaknesses, but they shred infantry and as much as people love a good dreadnaught or special character its infantry that make and break games.
That being said, Heirodule is right, 20 TS Hormies might be the most effective unit we have, but if it doesn't have support, if you don't cover its weaknesses and use all your units in conjunction with each other you will be roflstomped by even the weakest of opponents
I guess I'm just stuck in 4th edition (last time I played 5th wasn't out).
And I'm new to Tyranids so I don't really understand the army very well. I ran the old Ork codes when I used to play before so I understand the value of cheap troops with numbers (LOTS of dakka in that army) but I might have gotten too hooked on the numbers as a judge of how a unit was doing. Can help when I'm writing up an army list but not really so much when I'm playing. Need to change my way of thinking a tad.
But that's why I'm here!
Last edited by McFace; May 23rd, 2011 at 21:32.
I can't speak for anyone but myself, but in almost all of my tyranid games of late my Hormagaunts with Toxin Sacs and Adrenial Glands have been my MVP. Sure it's 200 points for my 20 strong unit, but they have been takeing out Preditors, Rhinos, Devistators, and enemy elites in just about every game normaly makeing back 2-3x their points back easily. For me I will never leave home without them anymore.
New to 5th ed, give the stickies a look, you probably already have but i would very much recommend the tactica
which for some reason HFM hasn't finished yet, mind you i haven't really finished the FAQ so i cant really yell at him about it =) Ive actually noticed that people just ask their questions in the forum not in the FAQ, so i think i'm just going to sift through about 10-20 pages of the recent topics and grab the questions and answer's out of them. but that has nothing to do with your topic McFace i am just grumbling
Also i would recommend a wonderful post by the ever helpful Heridoule (i head he wrestled a wild bear once and now they are good friends and he rides it around town, curing sick children with nothing but laughter and the power of awesome =P)
It may be along the lines of the tactica but the advice he gives i cannot fault, remember repetition of good practices makes professionals into veterans
If you having troubles with making a list, in the army subfourm there is this topic
so the sages of the board can help you by making a list to your specifications (you should see this one army HFM made for me, 90 gargoyles, it looked so awesome to play but i would of gone mad painting them all, let alone moving them around on the battlefield)
but if you already have a list in mind and just want some fine tuning just post it and we will give it a once over and give some advice. Which remind me i need to post my 5000point apoc list, i got that game coming up next month want to get that list perfect =)
hehe listen to me prattle on
Suppose I should do that too. Never played beyond 3rd edition, as we just liked the rules more (have new books, but never got to reading them!)
My most cost efficient units are the ones I have without buying new ones, but I suppose that was not the question (i.e. I am going to play with the models I have, and buy nothing for some time. Not sure if it is smart, but for fun matches it is good enough as my opponents play Imperial Guards and Eldar and are bound te be torn to shreds anyways).
I think Gargoyles w/Toxin Sacs and Adrenal Glands are my vote for the most point efficient unit. They are cheaper than a hormogaunt but still put out about as much damage.
-They have a more consistent move/assault range.
-They can soften up the target in the shooting phase
-On the initial assault they have only 33% less attacks. They automatically wound on hits with rolls of 6 which makes up for some of that difference, especially if you count the shooting phase.
-They occupy the fast attack slot. Leaving your troops selection for Warriors, Tervigons, Genestealers, and gaunts.
-Provide cover for most monsterous creatures
I agree with what Heirodule said, if you don't build your army to support itself, you're setting yourself up to lose. I never build an army without gargoyles though. I usually have a team of shrikes to assist them. It's a fun/deadly team.