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4 Trueborn (4 blasters) in Raider w FF
3 Trueborn ( 2DL) in Raider w FF
3 Trueborn (2 DL)
1) 4 Trueborn (4 w blasters) in raider w FF -178 pts
Strengths -5 tank popping shots that can move and shoot
Weakness - in order to shoot blasters Turn 1 you need to disembark. Blasters range is limited compared to DL
2) 3 Trueborn (2 w DL) in Raider w FF (Ravager equivalent w no movement)- 156
Strengths- Sits back and shoots 3 lances. Ravager provides a glass shield to trueborn
Weakness- Cant move and shoot
3) 3 Trueborn (2 w DL) -86 points
Strengths- Great for low cost and using cover saves.
Weakness- Cant survive 1 volley of fire
i voted blaster squad for multitude of weapons to prise and can redeploy and shoot the same turn.
If you move 12" passengers can't fire unless they disembark first so they would have to get out and shoot first turn with blasters
I usually use 4 blasters in a venom, blasters destroy transport, venom's splinter cannons gun down whatever comes out, 2 or 3 units like this handle most of my anti-mech if I don't use ravagers
A- move 6 inches and fire. But since the range of blasters is 18 you won't reach and therefore cant fire
B- move 12 inches without disembarking. Only the transport can fire
C- move 12 inches and disembark. Both the transport and the trueborn can fire. Whether you use a venom to pop the guys afterwards or a raider to shoot a second vehicle it seems like the best approach.
Remember on option 2 if you move the vehicle only the vehicle can shoot since DL is a heavy weapon.
4 blaster trueborn with your choice of dedicated transport (raider or venom both have valid uses) I think is the most solid option. Lots o dakka plus the ability to move around for position instead of being a static target.
n00b Ork and DE player.
None of the above. The best option is 5 men with 2 lances with a raider (which flies off on its own).
People massively, massively overrate blaster squads (this stems from some old old design philosophies tied to the marine codices) - they have their place but given blasters can be found cheaply across the codex and lances cannot, it makes more sense to given the trueborn lances and find blasters elsewhere.
Dear Outsider, please tell me why Blasters are massively overrated? I personally don't see where the Blasters can be found more cheaply in the codex: warriors? Sure but you can only get 1 in 5.
I like your 5 man 2x DL build with Raider too and it is just a little more expensive than the 4x Blaster Venom. It has the advantage of shooting at 2 different tank targets but it lacks movement on 2 DL. It does reward a lucky shot on 1 Dark Lance so you can still shoot another target.
The thing is that the 4 Blasters give you VS AV12 the theoretical certainty of 133% in causing a Shaken+ result and 30% chance on a wreck+. On top of that they are vastly more mobile.
Sure there biggest weakness is that they will be shot down easily but frankly 5 Trueborn will suffer as much. And if they are shooting elite choices, your troops are surviving. The idea about mobility is that you can move in on a flank, incapacitate it and stay out of LoS for the rest of the army.
The biggest advantage is that you get a Venom with 12 poisonous shots too boost.
I used to play the sniper squad too but it doesn't really give what it did before: it isn't scoring any more.
I stayed away from using 4x Blasters squad until now because it felt like too vulnerable but the damage output is just too good to miss out.
So yes I only have theory experience but I'll come back on it if the blasters disappoint me.
I'm not sure how you make the comparison to the old design philosophies tied to the marine codex. When I look at 4 trueborn with blasters it reminds me of Eldar Fire Dragons in a transport.
Why waste trueborn on suicide runs? Elite slots are valuable and wasting trueborn on suicide squads is foolish when the unit can do so much more. Four shredders and 2 splintercannon (for example) pump out hideous amounts of gunfire and are far less likely to get you killed.
Blasters - along with lances aren't fantastic anti-tank, what makes them good is they are found across nearly every slot in the codex and most are mobile. However people are using blaster trueborn like they are some sort of fire dragon equivalent and they really aren't - you are much better off getting heat lances in the list to meet that.
Plus that people take trueborn squads expecting them to actually perform all the time, I have yet to meet a decent player who couldn't see them (and any ravagers) coming a mile off and pull the list apart in that manner. Being entirely reliant upon their raider (and not an assault unit) for damage output is also painful, the best anti-tank is consistent anti-tank - something that will perform game after game regardless of variables, units like scourges, taloses, ravagers and reavers are consistent. They are self contained units that aren't reliant upon any other aspect of the list to function within their role.
The lack of scoring on my trueborn sniper unit is totally irrelevant, warrior sniper squads only worked in the old codex due to absurd cost and these days warriors are much better served in 10 strong squads with splintercannon and special weapon of choice.
Trueborn fall into the old marine design philosophy of "more weapons = better (regardless of squad size)" because marines have a high price of admission on their squads and having access to large numbers of weapons keeps costs down as you are taking less marines. It is the classic rocket lawnchair all over again.
The irony being devastators have long worked on the principle of 2:1 bodies: weapons.
Half of the min/max lists you see right now aren't as good as people think - they only gaiend popularity (as far as the term goes) because a few internet heros said how great the yare in their blogs/on forums and other players who merely jump on the wagon took the idea and ran with it. DE can do much, much better and the sooner players who just regurgitate whatever is the "in" thing now realise this the better it is for everyone.
I find you opinion on the min max thing to be both interesting and sensible, but having played well over 50 games now with two blaster toting squads of true born I have to say I'm a fan, I'm not doing it because people say they are good, I do it because my opponent just has so much to worry about, in 1500 points I frequently take 26 lance shots and almost a 80 twin linked splinter shots, excluding the ones coming from the venoms.
Now I find that if my opponent spends time to shoot down the two venoms in his face.. It takes him much longer than anticipated, he has to take out two av10 transports (much harder than we give credit for) with a 5++, then he doesn't realise half of the time that the 4 guys are still there and well within their 24" effective range, so he has to pump more firepower into them, to do all this often takes a good 80% of his army, giving me, a free turn to get further in his face and shoot some more with the rest of my list,
They may die in games where opponents realise what they are capable of, but unlike a 5 man dev squad, these 4 buggers are alot more tough than you realise and are less far into the min/max that your saying about. As such I do not mind that in different games they act differently, as a good DE player I can utilise other parts of my list in their stead, and use the distraction they create against said opponent to my advantage.
I hope I have explained a little bit of where I am coming from, I agree that on their own they are not the godsend anyone ever asked for, but they are a valuable and key asset to any army that decides to take them.