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  1. #1
    Member McFace's Avatar
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    Random new DE player questions

    So I just picked up my copy of the DE codex today and since I had nothing to do (read: put off everything else) I read it cover to cover. Just finished actually. For the first time in a while after a reading a codex for the first time I actually had some questions that I felt would be best posed to actual players. So bear with me (as it's been 3 years since I've picked up the dice and engaged in plastic combat, never in 5th though) and here we go:

    1. Is it just me or are some of the stat lines for DE units ridiculous? Not special characters as I expect that, but the ones that jumped out at me were Incubi, Succubi (who are MUCH more impressive than Archons in my humble opinion), and Clawed Fiends. I guess the argument would be you're paying 22 points per Incubus but looking at these guys I would much rather have them then most other elite slot units from other armies (I'm looking at you Terminators).

    2. It seems very easy to me to spam Beastmaster units to an insane level. And it seems to me to be one of the strongest fast attack options in the codex. Is this common practice in competitive lists?

    3. Does anyone ever take Harlequins?

    4. For how much the Voidraven entry harps on the awesomeness of the Void Mine, I was more impressed by the implosion missile. Maybe I'm a bit biased as I love infantry killers more than vehicle killers but given the large amount of anti-vehicle weaponry a DE army can field the implosion missile seems more useful to me.

    5. Unless you are taking only Haemonculi is there any reason NOT to take a special character? Even at 1000 points the Baron is barely above 100 and Malys, Lelith, the Duke, and Kheradruakh seem reasonably priced for a bit larger armies.

    Last one I swear.....and it's not even really a question!

    6. After reading though all the unit entries and such it dawned on me that the awesome is spread around very well. By that I mean there are no units (okay there is one.......but that was covered in 3) that I looked at and said "Nope, never taking that". Things seem very balanced trade-off wise between units too. No combat drugs for Warriors? No problem, all your basic shooting wounds on 4+.......and you're only paying 9 points per model. Only a 6+ armor save for Wyches? Also no problem, 4+ invulnerable in close combat and you can take some nice anti-vehicle stuff to boot.


    I'm sure I'll think of some more but thanks for reading and I look forward to the comments!

    BATTLESHEEP

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  3. #2
    Son of LO Phaeron Typhoon's Avatar
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    I am new to Dark Eldar myself, though I have played them several times. Let me see if I can help with some of your questions.

    1. I think that this question comes down to personal preference really. I tend to like grotesques and trueborn blaster squads for my elites, and I think the Archon and Haemonculi are the two great HQ choices.

    2. Beastmasters really shine in WWP lists, otherwise I believe that the faster selections tend to fit better into raider based lists.

    3. Harlequins aren't necessary for Dark Eldar at all, we have plenty of units that can do anything Harlequins can do and also get a transport. I think if harlequins had access to a venom or something then they would be much better.

    4. If your going for anti-infantry then the Razorwing is much better I think. Comes with missiles for free instead of having to pay for them. A Razorwing with necrotoxin missiles (or even just the standard monoscythe), splinter cannon, and 2 dissies will definitely put the hurt on infantry of any type.

    5. Malys, The Duke, and The Baron are all amazing deals in my opinion and really benefit different armies. Want to make a deepstriking raider force with lots of wytch cult? The Duke is the man for you. Want the great benefit of redeployment with a character that has a pretty great selection of wargear? Lady Malys is amazing for her cost. I'm not a huge fan of hellions, and I'm not too keen on the Baron not having any sort of decent weapon, but going first is a huge deal for dark eldar, and the baron helps towards that.

    6. That is the mark of a wonderfully balanced codex.
    Last edited by Phaeron Typhoon; June 7th, 2011 at 02:37.

  4. #3
    Slave to the flesh The_Outsider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McFace View Post

    1. Is it just me or are some of the stat lines for DE units ridiculous? Not special characters as I expect that, but the ones that jumped out at me were Incubi, Succubi (who are MUCH more impressive than Archons in my humble opinion), and Clawed Fiends. I guess the argument would be you're paying 22 points per Incubus but looking at these guys I would much rather have them then most other elite slot units from other armies (I'm looking at you Terminators).
    The incubi statline hasn't really changed from the last codex - the main difference is they have 2A base now as opposed to 1A and getting an extra attack from pistol/CCW (thats the short of it). They always were - and still are - marine killers virtually without compare, though i'll admit getting fleet (they didn't used to have it) is an insane boost.

    The others have factors that keep them in check - succubi don't get any of the cool wepaons that archons do, nor do they have some of the more special gear (such as shadowfield), but they are extremely cheap and gel extremely well with wych units.

    The clawed fiend is okay, the nature of beast movement and the requirement of beastmasters keeps it in check.

    2. It seems very easy to me to spam Beastmaster units to an insane level. And it seems to me to be one of the strongest fast attack options in the codex. Is this common practice in competitive lists?
    People spam them because they are pretty much the only good beast unit in the game and khymerae are deceptively durable in an army that has very few invulnerable saves as a whole. The spamming in general is tied to redundancy, basically more units = harder for the enemy to gimp parts of your force by removing only one unit.

    3. Does anyone ever take Harlequins?
    Yes, though they have the bad luck of falling right inbetween incubi and bloodbrydes in their role and both of the former are very good at what they do - especially with power from pain. That said harlequins are a damn fine unit and work pretty much as they are intended.

    4. For how much the Voidraven entry harps on the awesomeness of the Void Mine, I was more impressed by the implosion missile. Maybe I'm a bit biased as I love infantry killers more than vehicle killers but given the large amount of anti-vehicle weaponry a DE army can field the implosion missile seems more useful to me.
    Cost hold implosion missiles back, a 200+ point AV11 voidraven is a large investment for something that really won't take return fire.

    5. Unless you are taking only Haemonculi is there any reason NOT to take a special character? Even at 1000 points the Baron is barely above 100 and Malys, Lelith, the Duke, and Kheradruakh seem reasonably priced for a bit larger armies.
    Opinions regarding special characters are all over the place, but the short of it is an archon is still the most cost effective all purpose close combat character (namely with an agoniser), plus he is the only way to give incubi grenades while keeping them in a raider.

    6. After reading though all the unit entries and such it dawned on me that the awesome is spread around very well. By that I mean there are no units (okay there is one.......but that was covered in 3) that I looked at and said "Nope, never taking that". Things seem very balanced trade-off wise between units too. No combat drugs for Warriors? No problem, all your basic shooting wounds on 4+.......and you're only paying 9 points per model. Only a 6+ armor save for Wyches? Also no problem, 4+ invulnerable in close combat and you can take some nice anti-vehicle stuff to boot.
    That is a mark of balance - the DE codex really is very well balanced as - contrary to the stupid trueborn spamming having units who share a slot not fight for the same role is very useful when it applies to the entire codex. It means you can have an army with a bit of something without being forced to take X to have (for example) anti-tank, or anti-infantry.
    Last edited by The_Outsider; June 7th, 2011 at 03:06.

  5. #4
    Member McFace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Outsider View Post
    Yes, though they have the bad luck of falling right inbetween incubi and bloodbrydes in their role and both of the former are very good at what they do - especially with power from pain. That said harlequins are a damn fine unit and work pretty much as they are intended.
    Maybe I'm missing something but how are they intended to work? They seem to be inferior assault troops to me.
    BATTLESHEEP

  6. #5
    Senior Member nigelboyette's Avatar
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    harliquins have rending are hard to shoot at due to the shadowseer and ignore cover.

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    Member McFace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nigelboyette View Post
    harliquins have rending are hard to shoot at due to the shadowseer and ignore cover.
    Elite slot though right? Honestly I would rather have Incubi.

    Okay maybe I'm making too much out of personal preference...........
    BATTLESHEEP

  8. #7
    No Rest For the Righteous Ebon Hand's Avatar
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    An important thing to note is that Incubi are missing plasma grenades. Unless you rock with an Archon with a phantasm g-launcher, they will strike last assaulting into cover, robbing them of one of their advantages.

    The Harlequins strike me as the unit you take in situations where Incubi just don't fit into your plan just right. You may not feel like giving or even be able to give them an archon, and you might not want to have to give them a transport. You may be facing an army where Incubi power weapons seem unnecessary (horde armies with bad armor saves where power weapons aren't so important). Harlequins also have Hit & Run, and ignore terrain, which is useful in special games like jungle or cityfight. Harlies are also a little cheaper and can come out of a webway portal as well.

    The above is true though, Bloodbrides can sometimes fill their role too, they just are missing some of the special perks.

    A Dark Eldar list can be honed to a sharp blade by making everything ultra efficient at what they are supposed to do. That's why I think there are units that seem similar, yet are fundamentally different.
    Last edited by Ebon Hand; June 7th, 2011 at 22:01.

    "Courage is not the absence of fear, it is the conquest of it." -Anon

  9. #8
    Son of LO Phaeron Typhoon's Avatar
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    That's the problem with harlequins, they are an exceptional unit, but dont really have a place in the Dark Eldar codex since we already have so many things that can do their jobs (and usually with a transport as well)

    I think the problem with harlequins is that, as someone else already stated, harlies fall between two of our current elites. I think many of the strengths that the harlies have can be offset by other units in our codex's ability to take a transport, which also helps throw another dark light weapon into the game.
    Last edited by Phaeron Typhoon; June 7th, 2011 at 22:05.

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