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Another thread made me think that we should share some of our experiences, where it could have been better to keep portions of the Ork army in reserves to stave off a SPAM, cheese, or misc situation.
For instance, Greggles posted this:
I started playing chaos daemons regularly now, and have begun reserving 100% of my foot slogging force, only keeping transports/vehicles on the board. This is because the daemons have an incredible force wiping alpha strike, that can completely wipe out 90+ boyz before it's even your turn. If you can survive that first strike however, the game goes MUCH better.
When they're kept off the board, or in vehicles, they tend to survive to assault the flamer units on your turn.
So are there any other armies or situations where you want to hide your footsloggers???
I have found it useful to hide a portion of the army during the Spearhead Deployment method.
Yesterday I ran across someone with an awesome reserve idea for orks. They took 3 meganobz, threw them in a trukk, and kept it in reserve.
The normal end result was that the meganobz come onto the board in the 3rd or 4th turn, usually by the point where all the big nasty things on the board had already been killed. They then easily wiped out any troops on an objective (with kombiskorcha's and the assault), and the points cost was pretty minor. By that turn, most of the things that could kill or hurt them were already disabled, so they were basically king of the battlefield.
I'm going to try that in my new trukk list now, see how it works out.
We play your standard GW setup, so it's the dice roll that determines objectives or not. Most of the time it's objectives. The only problem with having MANZ as troops, is it also means you have to take a warboss...which means now you've got two HQ's. Not really that big of a deal, but 100 (almost the cost of 3 more manz!) or so points is a lot in an ork army! With it generally being insanely easy to contest an objective, I've found you usually just try to hold one, and contest all the others.
I saw an army list yesterday at 2k points, that was 2 BW, 9 killa kan's, a deff dread, 9 rokkit buggies, and FIVE TRUKKS. Dude somehow combined both a kan wall, and a trukk/bw bash list at 2k points, just by only having 1 hq, and taking literally no upgrades.
A kan wall's primary job is to protect the groups of boyz behind them.
By running 9 killa kan's, and 2 deff dreads, this provides a massive 4+ save to everything behind them.
With 2 KFF Big Mek's, each walker under the bubble gets a 4+ obscured cover save. So your entire army has 4+ saves, including your walkers.
It's the 4+ cover saves that make the kan's so difficult to destroy. It would appear at first glance that they'd be push overs...but in reality, it is extremely difficult to wipe out 11 walkers (with 4+ cover saves), unless you spec an army specifically to do so.
As for terminators...the kan's make mincemeat out of them. The only terminators that have a decent chance of doing anything to them are thunderhammer terminators, and even then, they swing after the killa kan's...and 9 str 10 DCCW attacks are nothing to sneeze at. (Hit on 4+, wound on 2+, even with WS 2).
Your normal deep striking terminators will never reach them. Since terminators deep strike in, they have to be bunched up as per the rules, and a single grotzooka template will cover all 5 of them. Each kan fires two templates. They wound on 2+. You're looking at 20+ saves for the terminators to make. Any that survive will be gunned down by the gunline of shoota's directly behind the kan's. Most MEQ players who use terminators will only send them against the walkers once. After that they learn their lessons.
Your best bet vs a kan wall list, is to try to thin the herd, and tar pit as many as possible. This is made difficult by the fact there is usually 40+ boyz behind the kan's, so anyone engaging the kan's will also be assaulted by the boyz. There is a reason why the kan wall list is one of the ork staples. (It also looks completely bad ass!).
Keep in mind in the list I posted (that was a tourney list), it would be nigh impossible to stop the kan's.
You have two battlewagon's with deff rolla's to watch out for.
Nine rokkit buggies.
Nine Killa kan's
An angry deff dread.
And five trukk's full of angry boyz. (that's 5 PK/BP nobz's, and 55 speed happy boyz)
Tell me what you would shoot at first? Here's a hint, all the answers are wrong.
Last edited by greggles; June 17th, 2011 at 14:10.
i could see this list working now that you have explained it to me ordinance thoughe you dont get a cover save from it am ii right yes from the kff obscured but the can will is inafective yes ?
Ordnance does not ignore cover saves. The only thing ordnance does, is allow you to roll two d6's and take the highest in regards to armor penetration.
Barrage weapons ignore line of sight cover, and they would nullify the cover that the killa kan's give to the boyz behind them.
However the KFF will continue to function, as it is not LOS based cover, so the boyz will get their 5+ save instead.
Now if the weapon specifically states (ignores cover saves) such as the whirlwind missiles or flamers, this will nullify the KFF's saves. KFF saves also do not function in close combat, or in death or glory attacks vs a ramming/tank shocking battle wagon.
the plan is flawless flamers cant get close enuff and nobody uses whirlwind missileslol
i only no 1 barrage weapon thats a death strike missle IG or i might be wrong again
IG has a few barrage weapons. There are also other cover ignoring weapons, including much longer ranged flamers.
The daemons in particular are utterly devastating to the kan wall. Their flamers can, and will wipe out not only the kans, but the boyz behind them in a single alpha strike, "IF" they hit on target. The daemon flamers, if you are not aware, glance on 4+ (regardless of AV), wound on 4+ (regardless of toughness), ignore cover saves, and ignore armor saves. The flamers also have 3+ invuln saves, making them particularly tough to wipe out.