Ravager w/3 distin vs Razorwing w/ 2 distin - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Son of LO ericismyname's Avatar
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    Ravager w/3 distin vs Razorwing w/ 2 distin

    Anyone else feeling like the ravager with 3 distin is much more reliable and durable? As opposed to the usual set up of razorwing w/2 distin, splinter cannon, and 4 missiles?

    of course both have flicker and night shields. But the point difference is there.

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  3. #2
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    I think it's a decent set-up on a decent vehicle. And overall it does some damage. But it doesn't equal the sheer explosive beauty and psychological power of the razorwing.

    Without the missiles it's obviously better. But it lacks the ability to just remove an enemy unit from the game.

    That said the points difference is nice. Maybe there's a place for it in smaller games.

    Man do I ever wish the dissy was a squad special weapon choice.

  4. #3
    Son of LO ericismyname's Avatar
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    leaving out looks and psychological aspect of it.

    We have a ravager with 3 distin w/ flicker and night shields at 125 points
    Then a razorwing w/ 2 distin, 4 missiles, splinter cannon, flick and night shields at 175 points.

    I see one with armor 11, but the other with 4 more missiles. Then the obvious 50 point difference.

    I guess im just curious to if its more a coolness factor as opposed to down a dirty game play differences.
    Eldar -APOC- 6500 Points
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  5. #4
    Son of LO Phaeron Typhoon's Avatar
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    I originally was using a razorwing for my anti-infantry heavy support but I then seriously began to consider whether or not it was actually that much better than a dissie ravager. I came to the conclusion that, at least in my opinion, it is still a good choice but the dissie ravager might be more effective for its cost.

    There are a couple reasons, one being that outside of AT weapons, AV 11 over 10 is actually a pretty big deal. I have already had several games where a player has used a suicide melta squad in a drop pod, the meltas either missed or glanced off the flickerfield, but then several bolter shots end up downing the jetfighter instead. There are plenty of fast armies out there that can get within threat range with basic small arms fire that can be a danger to an AV10 vehicle.

    I also think that the dissie ravager plays nearly as much a psychological role as the razorwing. I have talked to people and friends at my local store and I tend to get alot of the same responses. I mention how many weapons the jetfighter can fire off the turn it comes in and local people tend to discount it given that they still get their armor saves and FnP saves and whatnot against the missiles. Then I mention that it still has 2 dissies and they mention that thats all it has left after the one shot missiles and that the jetfighter itself will go down against nearly everything with its AV10. The people I play with tend to fear the ravager alot more for the amount of AP2 shots it can have with 3 dissies combined with its greater toughness.

    Again, I believe both are great anti-infantry choices, I just think that given cost difference and the prevalence of FnP nowadays (which the dissie ravager deals with to greater effect), will see me playing 3 ravagers now.

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    The problem with the dissy is that it's not as epic as people seem to think. Against MEQ it is wounding on 3+. Just a little better then a splinter shot. Yes, AP 2 is great but they still get cover and/or invulns. With three types of save it's rare not to get one of them, especially when you opponent knows what you've got in store. Against GEQ, I'd rather get more shots since I won't be worried about power armor. Against High toughness or vehicles, S5 is kinda underwhelming.

    Throwing out multiple attack types makes the razorwing superior. 20 or so hits from the missiles, 6 from the dissies and 6 from the cannon. The ravager has to get 4 rounds of shooting to get that many shots.

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    So when I play the razorwing I take (Dissies, SC, & FF) which brings it in at 165. So yes it is 50 points more than a ravager with dissies. I hold the vehicle in reserve and then deploy it where it is needed and unleash everything in the first turn it arrives. Reasons why I like it better. Ravager coming in at 115 only has on avg a chance to kill 5 guys a turn supposing no saves. Razorwing has a chance to kill significantly more with missiles. Especially against hoards or enemies that hide in cover razorwing is better. I love large blast templates and just how much area they cover. So yes the razorwing is likely to go down to fire from the enemy the next turn or two but will the Razorwing kill 165 points of enemies before it does? In my experience it always brings down 165 on the turn it arrives when you shoot the right target. This means targeting enemy elites/heavy. Plus it comes with a SC which is great just in case you want to kill something nasty that has high T (I'm thinking nightbringer, wraithlord, Nids). All in all I just prefer the razorwing when going against infantry.

    One other thing to think about. Razorwing has better movement for objective grabbing (if it ever makes it that far) and after 2 rounds of shooting lots of stuff is in CC which means you have a tough time finding things to shoot at. So make sure you take the razorwing since it is more likely to recoup it's point cost faster.

    Another trick. Think about bringing Lady Malys and then you don't have to reserve the razorwing!!!!!

  8. #7
    Son of LO Phaeron Typhoon's Avatar
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    It isnt really fair to mention the lack of High toughness or vehicle killing capacity of the dissie ravager since we are purely talking about its anti-infantry abilities and the fact that the razorwing in question has the same weaknesses. Dissies are a needed thing what with every army out there now having some way to take FnP all over the place. Wounding on a 3+ is alot better than a splinter shot when it is ignoring 2 out of the three saves something can get.

    The razorwing does throw out more attacks by far for a turn, however all that firepower is going to decimate just one unit. The ravager has a better chance to last a couple turns longer and actually hurt (though not completely anihilate) more than one unit before it probably gets turned into a crater.

    Like I said though, I absolutely love both options, but for me there is a prolifigate amount of blood angels, space wolves, and grey knight players in my area where I want the dissie ravager to ignore all the 2+ and 3+ armor and FnP that gets bandied around. When more Orks and GeQ's start getting played around here then the razorwing is definitly going to be the star of the show again in my all comers list.

  9. #8
    Slave to the flesh The_Outsider's Avatar
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    I'm a fan of the ravager merely because all of its weapons are the same - the variable AP for the razorwing setup makes wound allocation on decently sized marine units a pain to deal with. Then again the razorwing is an awful lot of dakka for fairly cheap.

    Still, I stand by the ravager in this particular scenario.


    Quote Originally Posted by Attemptedm View Post
    The problem with the dissy is that it's not as epic as people seem to think. Against MEQ it is wounding on 3+. Just a little better then a splinter shot. Yes, AP 2 is great but they still get cover and/or invulns. With three types of save it's rare not to get one of them,
    Mass invulnerable saves are pretty rare (notable exception: daemons) and even then the majority of invulnerable saves are 5+, this makes the disintegrator ravager pretty hot at mowing down terminators - which is their primary target.

    The myth about cover saves everywhere is just that - a myth. Virtually every unit the disintegrator excels against isn't going to be dicking about hiding in cover (though it may and try to claim a cover save by hiding behind something - this is where aerial assault comes in).
    Last edited by The_Outsider; June 28th, 2011 at 19:26.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Outsider
    I'm a fan of the ravager merely because all of its weapons are the same - the variable AP for the razorwing setup makes wound allocation on decently sized marine units a pain to deal with. Then again the razorwing is an awful lot of dakka for fairly cheap.

    Still, I stand by the ravager in this particular scenario.

    Mass invulnerable saves are pretty rare (notable exception: daemons) and even then the majority of invulnerable saves are 5+, this makes the disintegrator ravager pretty hot at mowing down terminators - which is their primary target.

    The myth about cover saves everywhere is just that - a myth. Virtually every unit the disintegrator excels against isn't going to be dicking about hiding in cover (though it may and try to claim a cover save by hiding behind something - this is where aerial assault comes in).
    I guess this is a location difference.

    For termies: against traditional shooty termies you are correct. The dissies turn these into mush. But I rarely see anything other then TH/SS termies. And 3+ invuln means you may get two wounds on them with the ravager. Granted, the razorwing isn't going to do much better against those, but I have found that they're best left to mass splinter fire anyway.

    As far as cover goes, even marine players know that power armor falls apart for some things and that being in cover will many times cause an enemy to strike last in combat. Where I play marine players hug cover as religiously as everyone else or create it with vehicles.

  11. #10
    No Rest For the Righteous Ebon Hand's Avatar
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    How is it a myth? Any player worth his salt is going to use Transports, other Troops, and/or Terrain to give his guys cover, especially if there is a 3 Dis Ravager around.

    The initial strike of the Razorwing is an advantage because if you wipe a dangerous unit off the board immediately, it improves the survivability of your entire army.

    That said, if you are up against massive amounts of Feel no Pain, the 3 Dis Ravager is the better option for obvious reasons. But who really gets widespread feel no pain (currently) besides Dark Eldar?

    "Courage is not the absence of fear, it is the conquest of it." -Anon

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