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  1. #1
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    A genuine troop dilemma.

    Okay, so listen.

    I'm pretty sure that everyone feels the same when you end up with about 60/80 points left and you don't really know what to spend them on. You've packed out your Eldar army with everything you're gonna need and you just have that little bit left over. Because I am not an idiot, I always take 2 squads of 10 Dire Avengers in a Serpent as a troops choice in a 1500 point army. The problem, you're gonna need a third troops choice... and I don't think 5 DAs is enough (and you certainly don't have the points to put them in a serpent) Sadly, this isn't a debate about Guardians - sad only in the sense that I despise them, and I'd like an opportunity to slag them off more. I wont, however - they don't deserve my time. And besides, you need to take A LOT... and that just wont fit into 80 points. My question, then, is do we try and utilise this new Forgeworld bad boy?


    So far as I can make out it's vital to have a third troops choice option in 1500 point lists, what with there being the possibility of 5 objectives to claim. Kitting out 3x 10man DA squads in serpents (w/ cannons) is going to set you back over half your points - and I have prisms and Fire Dragons I want to fit in yet... I'm not sure 3 DA squads is viable for the points cost? I think we all agree that Pathfinders are too expensive to fit in the 60/80 range. So too, are (enough) guardians. That leaves you a choice of bikes, or this bad boy.

    I've been playing bikes up until recently, and yes, they're fine. I like a 3+ cover save as much as the next guy. But essentially they don't do any damage. They can score an objective, but if they arrive on your first reserve roll that's pretty rubbish I think. They don't make any points back, and they're likely to get shot at at one point. Let's say you upgrade the bikes with a cannon so you have 3x Bike + cannon = 76 points.

    This Wasp Walker is 45 points. AND it can deepstrike! AND it can move 24 inches in lieu of shooting! AND you can take 2 str 6 weapons for 10 points (if you take cannons) AND it's BS4! AND, most importantly, ITS A TROOPS CHOICE!!!

    http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/w/Wasp.pdf

    The problem with that is though, I'm not sure how durable it is. You can kit it out with stones and 2 cannons for 60 points. You can make those cannons scatter lasers for 80 points! I'm pretty sure that tops Value For Money more than the bikes. It's likely to do damage and it can still claim an objective.

    My question then is this. Are Wasp Walkers the news bikes? Are they likely to make it into your army if you have a few points spare. I'm certainly thinking that way...

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    Last edited by Jackolas; August 4th, 2011 at 15:43. Reason: Didn't finish post... idiot :s

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  3. #2
    LO Zealot Farseer Macleod's Avatar
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    Yes the stats on the wasp are very tempting but theres a couple of things to consider.
    1.) It's not an offical part of the codex with rules unlike the Night Spinner which has been given the go ahead by GW. So your gonna have to ask your opponent if its okay for you to use.
    2.) It may be a troops choice but it is still a Vehicle and cannot claim objectives.

    There is only one exception to this rule that I know of in all of 40K and that is in the grey Knight codex using a Grandmasters grand stategy to make vehicles scoring. (This was FAQ'd.) So if your wanting a scoring unit I'm afraid your stuck with the bikes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Farseer Macleod View Post
    So if your wanting a scoring unit I'm afraid your stuck with the bikes.
    That just about settles in then. There's no point taking a unit that's not going to claim an objective... That was why I was so excited about it. I made an assumption that just because it was a troops choice, it'd be able to claim an objective. In that case, I'm not so sure anymore...

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    Well claiming objectives is over rated. Honestly I usually win with only one objective because all of theirs are contested haha. But I would go for 3 bikes and a cannon that comes at less than 70 points put it reserve and keep boosting or shooting till last turn. Then swoop for an objective.

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    Personally I find it rare that I'm left with points left over and I'm wondering what to do.

    Rather I'm OVER points and I'm trying to decide on where I can tighten my belt.

    More on topic I'm not so sure at all about just throwing in a cheapo squad. It makes for an easy kill point when that matters, and if you need to claim an objective a cheapo squad is all too easy to clear off of it.

    I think if I was going to go with a cheapo squad I'd probably go with EML guardians. They aren't exactly going to leave your opponent quivering in fear. But they can plink away while hunkering in cover quite some distance from the main action, this makes them pretty survivable. And since they can move and shoot you can move to a calmer objective in the later turns. Also I find that I wind up with empty serpents near the end of the game as the squads they've deployed are busy doing other things. So you can send one over and use the guardians like a DAVU squad.

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    These are all valid points. I think the real strength of the Wasp Walker though is its ability to Deepstrike. I'd rather take Bikes over Guardians and leave them in reserve. I don't think guardians are that survivable at all, even in cover. What with so many units that can outflank or deepstrike.

    I know what you mean about serpents though. I just think that you need a lot of guardians to make things work. And for the 15 man Guardian squad + EML you could almost field a full DA Unit with Exarch... Or 2 Wasp Walkers loaded with Cannons...

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    LO Zealot Farseer Macleod's Avatar
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    To me deepstriking has its uses but because of how easily something can go wrong I tend to avoid it. I don't thing the wasps true strength is its deepstriking ability but more how it can jump 24" and then assault! S3 units wont have a chance against this. I'm waiting to use one against my nid friend so I can just tie up his gaunts all day long with just one wasp! Stompy, stompy, stompy! ^_^

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    Son of LO ikbuh's Avatar
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    Stomguardians are a good choice as an alternative to DAs. You get a serpent, two flamers and a heavy flamer for a pretty good price. I don't know what your price range is.
    40k: Silver Angels of Our Martyred Lady 7/2/3 - Daemons of the Great Squiggle! 3/1/0
    Fantasy: Windhost of Athel'Loren 2/0/0 - Daemons of Another Great Squiggle! 0/0/0
    Warmahordes: Legion of Everblight (Absylonia)

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    Son of LO ericismyname's Avatar
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    Hello. if you want 3 squads of DA but cannot afford the 152 for ten of them kitted out right, try taking 3 squads of like 7-8.
    Eldar -APOC- 6500 Points
    Chaos Daemons -Fate Crusher- 3500 Points
    Grey knights - 1000 Points

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericismyname View Post
    Hello. if you want 3 squads of DA but cannot afford the 152 for ten of them kitted out right, try taking 3 squads of like 7-8.
    It still doesn't solve the minimal viable point for putting 3 DA squads in a serpent though... you can save enough points by dropping out 3 men per squad + exarchs and powers. But that makes them v v average. Bladestorm is an excellent power, and I don't think DAs should leave home without it. I think for 120 saved points you'd be better of taking two of the new walkers with cannons and stones. They're a bit more durable and likely to hold units up in assault, or can jump to claim objectives at the last second. It's not just the cost of the DAs, it's the cost of putting them in a serpent too that makes them not viable as a third troops choice... same goes for storm guardians.

    Don't get me wrong, I love DAs, they're by far our best troops choice. But I think full 10 man squads with exarch and dual cats is the best set up purely in terms of dice in hand and potential to cause damage. I think, therefore a cheaper option is needed as your third troops choice? Unless you think I'm an idiot, and you don't even NEED a third troops choice?

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