Gun boat, Wych list, WWP, or Coven List - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

Welcome to Librarium Online!

Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!

Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!


Register Now!

User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12
  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    348
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    30 (x1)

    Gun boat, Wych list, WWP, or Coven List

    From what I follow on the forums it seems like most DE players are favoring the Gun boat list. Especially if the Gun boat list favors venom spam. Something like the following:

    *************************
    Typical Gun Boat List
    HQ- Typically A Haemonculi with LG in order to keep the point cost down
    Elite- 3 squads of Trueborn with 4 Blasters or 2 DL in either a Venom (with NS & SC) or Raider (w FF)
    Troops- 6 squads of 5 warriors (1 with blaster) in Venom with NS and SC upgrade
    Heavy- 3 Ravagers

    Typical things that vary are using 1 squad of troops for Wracks/Wyches
    Changing 1 Ravager for 1 Razorwingor (with SC, FF, and Dissies/DL)
    Fast Attack may be Beasts, RJBs, or Scourges
    *************************

    The list really has some key strengths:the ability to hit from far away, high mobility since most of the shooting comes from the vehicles, and a large number of shots that ignore T since its based on poisoned weapons.

    Ok so on with it. Do you think their is a Gladiator List, WWP, or Coven List that provides just as much flexibility against so many different opponents bringing tough lists like (IG leaf blower, SW with Long Fangs, etc)?

    Share your thoughts and if you have a great list for Wyches, WWP, or Covens that you play or have seen play that dominates please post.


  2. Remove Advertisements
    Librarium-Online.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Senior Member dizzie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Ireland
    Age
    35
    Posts
    724
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputation
    54 (x2)

    Gunboat venom spam seems to be the main Tournament list at the moment.
    There are alot of ways to play DE, the codex is very balanced, so you will find some lists that basically come down to themes or own player style.
    Wyche armies are very good, still have the raiders and venoms though, with more than likely the duke to give them 2d6 roll on drugs.
    Coven armies are fairly good this edition, WWP not so good since the skimmers coming through them nerf, Though its still playable.

    To answer your question and keep it short, Yes other lists are still viable, out of each category you mentioned. Though you are more likely to find merged lists from each category to be tournament ready.
    Also I hate gunboat lists, i can never hit with lances, i had 26 once and done nothing for 2 turns, i prefer heat lances and haywire launchers and grenades, Also its not fun to play, you basically fly about and shoot. If i wanted to play tau I Would have.
    If you're always worried about crushing the ants beneath you...you won't be able to walk.

  4. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    348
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    30 (x1)

    Another big insight I learned from the WD article pointed out that WWP portal armies allow you to take an army that has 33% more infantry because your not spending so much on vehicles. This allows us the ability to control objectives near the center of the board or just avoid being shot. Plus with WWP you really do better in weird deployment scenarios or big boards. WWP have some big pluses especially in night fighting.

    The big downside I see is CC. As anyone knows if you loose CC you face the opportunity that you could fail a ld and be run off the board. Problem is lots of armies have things that I fear to be in combat with. Dreanaughts, Termies, Nids, BA, Khorne, etc. So against armies that are CC oriented I'm not sure our wyches and beasts will fair well.

  5. #4
    Senior Member dizzie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Ireland
    Age
    35
    Posts
    724
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputation
    54 (x2)

    Truthfully i have only played WWP a few times, i'm still trying to get it right.
    Last week i went up against a Blood angels mech list, it did very well but i lost by a single killpoint, i made a few mistakes and had some issues with rules that i found out after should have went in my favour.
    But yes your right, you can pretty much own the table where you come in from in portals.
    Wyches are not a great CC unit, they are more of a tarpit unit, they do perform well but it will take a few turns for them to kill a unit through attrition.
    As for beastmasters, I ate a Thunder hammer storm shield squad, a 7 man one with few casualties, took 3 turns to kill them but beast can handle them easy enough, infact these squads specialise in these type of elite squads, thunder wolf cav? no sweat. Wyches do quite well here too but without the umph!
    As for wyches and beasts not performing well against CC types armies, this is what their ideal targets are, to lock these type of armies in CC and kill them through attrition. Dreads are a pain but its nothing haywire grenades on the wyches can't handle, although i would only do this if necessary, you might get lucky and kill it first turn, however its more likely it will take a few turns and you don't want wyches locked in HTH with them if possible.


    The issue with WWP list is finding anti-tank elsewhere and not spending too much as to downgrade your combat ability and hordey-ness coming from your portals, I'm trying to find a good balance so that the WWP delivery system is cheap while also keeping the two talos and cronos and finding the elusive Anti-tank to support the MC's.
    If you're always worried about crushing the ants beneath you...you won't be able to walk.

  6. #5
    Senior Member El_Jairo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Leuven, Belgium
    Age
    35
    Posts
    350
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    42 (x1)

    The issue with WWP list is finding anti-tank elsewhere and not spending too much as to downgrade your combat ability and hordey-ness coming from your portals, I'm trying to find a good balance so that the WWP delivery system is cheap while also keeping the two talos and cronos and finding the elusive Anti-tank to support the MC's.

    I'd say 5x Scourges with 2x Haywire Blasters: ideal for stunlocking tanks until your talos can move in to finish them off.
    Otherwise Reavers might be an option too but much more expensive but more lethal with Heat Lances.
    Both options do require a fast slot, sadly but I reckon you can just run two large blocks of beasts.
    Maybe just try running Trueborn squads with blasters on foot? I would add some bodies to be able to endure some punishment but on the other hand, that seems just a waste of resources anyway.

    I'm really interested in WWP lists because my next project is to make Talos work for me. Foot slogging they do take too long to be effective. I'll take a peak at what you're running ATM.

    BTW, a little more off topic: I had problems keeping my Beastmasters units alive, maybe because I ran the smallish variant: 3x Beastmaster, 5x Khymerae and 4x Razorwingflock. How do you make yours survive combat?

  7. #6
    The Dvl in Pale Moonlight danceman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Age
    34
    Posts
    889
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    121 (x3)

    A decent way of making the WWP delivery mean something to the game beyond planting the WWP where you want it is Haemie with WWP in Venom speeding towards a unit of Mandrakes. You're not only delivering a WWP but at the same time granting the Mandrakes their FnP and Baleblast. Crusially, you're not hogging a FA spot from with the Mandrakes who can quickly clear ground without exposing themselves too much.
    ""What's the matter? Don't ya like clowns? Don't we make ya laugh?" - Captain Spaulding.

  8. #7
    Senior Member dizzie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Ireland
    Age
    35
    Posts
    724
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputation
    54 (x2)

    The mandrake idea is cool, i had considered something like this previously. Though as the only unit on the board turn 1 will it survive, ok we have 2+ go to ground in cover with stealth, a 10 man squad will take a lot of shots and it does take the flak off your venom for a turn. though i highly doubt anyone worth their salt will shoot the mandrakes and try instead to down that venom first, however is one WWP enough?
    I have played with two so far and one of the main issues is space when stuff actually comes on the board, We play with normal terrain setup according to the rule book so there's always alot of terrian and issues with placing squads. I have massive trouble placing large beastmaster squads, every thing else is so so.

    Can one venom survive danceman? i have not risked it yet, but i was thinking about it

    now the scourge idea seems feasible, if you can lock down threats then you are good to go, however these guys have to turn up too, starting them on the board first turn could be risky. As danceman indicated the fast attack slots are crucial in this army, though with three squads it may buy enough time.

    so realistically if we use your two options, including the 3 MC's
    so thats 2xtalos(HWL, CF) 230
    cronos(all upgrades)110
    Venom wracks and heamoniculi(NS, LG, WWP) 210
    10 mandrakes+ldr 160
    3 x 5man scourges(2xHWL) 390

    so thats a total of 1100

    So 900 pts to spend on wyches, beastmasters, heamoniculi and character, not bad i suppose, it could be an idea to take the baron, with hellions or the beastmaster squad, to keep it cheap, then load up on wyches and more bstmaster squads.

    on the beastmaster squad my setup is:
    5 beastmasters
    6 razorwings
    10 kyhmera

    Basically anything str 5 and under goes to a razorwing until it has 1 wound left
    all str 6 and above and any other instant kill go to khymera first for 4+ inv save.
    Beastmasters are throwaway but you need to make sure to keep 2-3, just incase torrent of shots forces saves on them and you lose your LD.
    Once you start losing too many Khymera(3-4) allocate to beastmasters until they are at 2-3(keep these), or take Beastmasters out first, up to you.
    then allocate between Khymera and razorwings depending on type of shots, using same rules.
    Last edited by dizzie; August 30th, 2011 at 17:56. Reason: added beastmaster stuff
    If you're always worried about crushing the ants beneath you...you won't be able to walk.

  9. #8
    Senior Member El_Jairo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Leuven, Belgium
    Age
    35
    Posts
    350
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    42 (x1)

    Hey Dizzie,

    I like your plan but sadly you only have only 3 Fast slots and 3 Scourge squads take them all in your current list. The good news is with the Baron you can take Hellions as troops so you effectively have more Fast access.

    An idea might be to switch one scourge squad for a trueborn venom, which you also put in reserve or put in on the board if it can be hidden. This way you can have a beatmaster unit. I feel it should be possible to hide two Scourge squads on any table with normal scenery.

    I personally was thinking about Harlequins as WWP delivery squad because they are immune vs long range shooting. They might be quite expensive.

    @ Danceman: I presume you use Wracks to add in the venom.

  10. #9
    The Dvl in Pale Moonlight danceman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Age
    34
    Posts
    889
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    121 (x3)

    Yeah, 4 Wracks in a venom(extra SC, NS) of which the haemic then will escape to after having granted a unit 7-10 mandrakes their token. The NS pays for itself many times over and the venom is a relatively small model so not hard to keep out of sight. The first turn/second simply deny your opponent any valuable targets and taunt him or her with your NS/FF Ravagers. While I like the WWP I do not center my entire army around it, rather complement it. 2 squads of beastmen packs + Talos is pretty much default for me. The rest is built to force my opponent into a game of cat and mouse. Since the place where the WWP lands will effectively become nice killbox and depending who you face might feel the need to move out its way. Hopefully you've managed to place it in a manner so your opponent moves into a percieved safety zone and into the killing field of the rest of your army.

    It isn't really a complicated tactic. We're fast and well equiped for this. Many opponent won't be.

    A rough scetch is(lands at 1500ish points, always find myself suprised how fast points run out) ;
    Malys is useful due to her deployment but I also like the Baron due to his speed, suprising durability/CC capabilities and PGL. Infact, Baron is probably better unless terrain gives you troubles or your opponents are consistently out-deploying you.
    Haemie with WWP, PW and Liq joining 4 wracks in a venom. PW and Liqs does make a difference but if you have the points agoniser is obviously a much better choice.
    2 x 5 warriors blaster in venoms with XSC
    4 TB blasters in venom with XSC
    2 beast packs
    7-8 mandrakes
    talos
    2 ravager with ns and ff.

    The rest depends on points level. The problem has been few scoring units but thanks to speed you're usually able to swoop in the last second. I'm considering to drop the TB in order for larger unit of wracks in a raider for exatra staying power but so far, it has worked out ok. It's still a work in progress. It is a fun army too play as well.
    ""What's the matter? Don't ya like clowns? Don't we make ya laugh?" - Captain Spaulding.

  11. #10
    Senior Member El_Jairo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Leuven, Belgium
    Age
    35
    Posts
    350
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    42 (x1)

    Cheer Danceman,

    I was looking for a way to get a Talos in a competitive list, this looks not bad at all.... not bad at all...

    True about the scoring though, but I reckon tabling is the way to go.
    I'm seriously starting to think that NS is an obligatory upgrade for our skimmers but that makes them pretty pricey, but also annoying

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts