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I was wandering which is the most copetitive army list tha Eldar have.
To be more specific I have found that the most people that are playing Eldar tend to use either an army list based on Jetbikes-Vypers while others are in favour of the WS lists.
This ''argument'' is pretty comfusing to be honest and given that the tourny-days are comining I would like to know which army list will make my opponents froze in terror.
I know that I am probably asking for something pretty difficult when it comes to the Eldar but I would like to hear all of you and then vote for the best one.
Thanks in advance
Well it is an interesting one. A jetbikes-Vypers list will probably have the same number of models on the table as a normal WS list since a twelve man jetbike squad basically costs the same as a full squad in a WS and being T4 with a 3+ save basically makes it a fast moving MEQ army.
The Vypers will simply be used as a heavy weapons platform to replace the weapons that you would have had on the Wave serpents. But because your using vypers to suppliment this it costs you more this way to get a missle launcher that is not as good as it would have been on a Wave Serpent since its not twin-linked.
But I would have to say that for pure effectiveness the advantage goes to Wave Serpents since the 5th Edition Rules makes Vehicles durable. Take a lascannon for instance.
3+ to hit
4 to glance/5+ To pen (Wave Serpents shield)
and then you roll on the damage table chart basically means that the Lascannon has a 20% chance to wreck the tank. (Im not going to do the exact math but it works out around this if I remember right.) Then you also have the 4+ cover saves for moving flat out on top of that.
Since most squads will only have one heavy weapon that means that that squad can pretty much do diddly squat the rest of the turn if it fails to take down the tank and leaves you pretty much unaffected but in order to capitalise on this you really do need to go all mech or ot just means all the heavy weapons will be focused on the few tanks you do have.
So to sum it up as fun as a J-bike and vyper list is to run Mech will always be better. (At least until the next edition comes out then we'll have to see whats better.)
Last edited by Fallen Autarch; September 22nd, 2011 at 08:56.
"Reached under the bed and pulled out a Converse and a beer, I appear to of developed the miraculous power to turn shoes into beer!.... or beer into shoes." - Fallen Autarch after St. Patricks day.
The thing about Jetbikes is that they don't actually do much except take objectives. They can't kill anything reliably short of Imperial Guard, and there's always plenty more where they came from. Wave Serpent and Fire Prism-based lists are IMHO the best you can do with Eldar. It depends on what the points cost is, of course, but 2 Farseers is obviously mandatory, and at 1500 I'd say 2 units of Dire Avengers with the Farseers and a unit either of Howling Banshees, Striking Scorpions or Fire Dragons, all in Wave Serpents equipped with Eldar Missile Launchers or Scatter Lasers, plus 3 Fire Prisms or maybe 2 Prisms and a Night Spinner, though personally I don't like Night Spinners.
Many people like to use Seer Councils but I find that tactic to be a little too 'all-in' for my taste: they kill your Council and they've killed a third of your army, and one nice juicy Vindicator round will do that just nicely.
Bear in mind everyone will have their different opinions. I don't know that you can really say that there is one definitive best list, because what works for one person might not work for another depending on play style, preferences etc. Different people will like different things. What I suggested here is simply the list I like the most, and I'm not saying that anyone else is wrong for using alternative lists. Though as a general rule any list with Guardians is going to lose. ;P
Also, I think it's fair to say that most people aren't really interested in having a super-list that will win every game, since there's not much point playing Warhammer if you're not having fun, and curbstomping every opponent you come up against is certainly not fun for either you or them. Obviously you always play to win, but that doesn't mean you have to win at all times no matter what.
Of corse if you could only curb stomp every time when you really want to, but of corse we aren't BA or Space Wolves...
The "Ideal" Eldar list would look something like this:
Elites: 5 Fire Dragons in a Wave Serpent
5 Fire Dragons in a Wave Serpent
5 Fire Dragons in a Wave Serpent
Troops: 5 OR 10 Dire Avengers in a Wave Serpent
(Copy-Paste several times depending on game size)
Fast Attack: NONE because even the best in this category are mediocre when compared to other choices.
Heavy Support: CHOOSE ONE
This is what a "standard tournament" list looks like for Eldar, assuming that list comp doesn't play a part in the points. Of corse this will in no way assure you a victory. You still have to play well, you still can't make ANY mistakes, and you still gotta hope for favor from the dice gods. Such is the Eldar way.
Yes as in the book.
And get dem Dragons out of dem Falcons! Downright embarisin sometimes.
Not entirely true. If you are a very good player and are intimately familiar with your list, you're basically never going to lose, not even to a tournament-compiled BA or SW list, barring some unlucky dice rolls (which happens to the best of us). If there's one thing Eldar rewards more than any other army, it's good tactics.
Demon,i disagree. Face a 20+ missile list at bs 4 and is gonna be harsh. Same with IG hydra/autocannon lists.
Hight elf and Craftworld Eldar army project pics heavy: linky
Not to mention GK Dreads. Tough times.
Which is pretty much what's starting to FORCE us to use double-autarch list... Ops, sorry. Wrong thread.
My beloved Eldar force, I'll judge your roster core. I appreciate your concern, You're gonna think and learn. Rep me... rep me, my friend.
Just a question.
Why Prisms against Falcons?
I mean they are BS4 and S9 but to me they are not that good.
Falcons have transport capacity which is pretty handy (throw some cheap DA and claim objectives) and they can take more that one weapons that gives the Falcon the ability to fire more shoots on the target. Not to mention that if the prism cannon goes down the whole vehicle is wasted!
Falcons are terrible. Prisms are one of the best units we have, though you should never ever take just one of them. In twos or threes they get exponentially better, because of versatility and raw power. Falcons are just worse Wave Serpents that take up a Heavy Support slot.
niraco: I like how you still call me Demon.