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I just wanted to know, has anyone used Urien Rakarth as their HQ & if so is he any good & how well does he go in battle?
unless you really want str 6 grotesques than he is pretty bad -very pricey ancient pretty much sums him up
well... now that mentioned it i never really looked at his points cost & looking at him now (skimming through codex), he is a bit pricey thanx
s hardly that simple. A Haemonculous Ancient doesn't hand out free pain tokens, doesn't stitch himself back together, have a 3+ wounding flesh gauntlet or toughness 5. Sure, a Clone Field isn't going to win any prizes for best defense, but a regular Haemonculous Ancient can't even get that much.
Sure, he's an investment, but he is worth it if you know how to use him.
Stab it, slash it, bite, tank shock and smash it. If that fails, shoot it.
I must echo False Son. He is pricey but he is much tougher than an ancient. T5, FnP and a clone field. Plus he regenerates wounds. Give free Tokens and allows for upgrades. S7 charging Grots will tear almost anything up(there are of course targets you should look out but what else is new?) and make a mockery of almost any vehicle. Extra tokens on Wracks will ensure they gain re-rolls against T4 units(of which there are quite a few of). So if you build your force around him, he offers a good deal. Like many of our unique characters he offers something for the army, not just himself. I would even go so far as to say if you make a coven list, he's a no-brainer. You won't have to generate any pain-tokens before your units already have FnP and Furious charge and your HQ isn't nearly as easy to get rid of which incidently makes him ideal for Grots(as you won't have to be paranoid about your babysitting haemie biting the dust. I'm not saying he's an auto-include by any stretch of the imagination but in the right list, he's got a definitely place.
""What's the matter? Don't ya like clowns? Don't we make ya laugh?" - Captain Spaulding.
That was the main thing i liked about him, his special abilities & his pain tokens.
okay if your running a full coven list i'll withdraw my comment as i don't run a coven list -however from a standard dark eldar army viewpoint ie one that uses units across all 3 factions its really hard to justify the 130 points extra over a standard heamy with liquifier gun, yes hes tough but hes not tough enough to warrent the pricetag for a general list
As to how he goes unfortunately i have just witnessed him in a game today but it was hardly a fair showing he pretty much disembarked from the raider charged mephiston and was promptly torn apart, I don't know why the guy charged him into sparkle boy but yeah not smart.
he's a good investment, but really you need at least one unit of grotesques.
This was pointed out to me in an earlier thread, sorry i forget who but i think it was kwi(apologies if i'm wrong).
he gave me a great idea of how to run urien, in truth you only need one squad at str 6 upgrade.
3 grotesques urien and a heamoniculi
grotesques: 1 liquifier, 1 flesh gauntlet (3 differently armed models)
heamoniculi armed with agoniser, vexator mask and liquifier.
All on a raider, you can add a 4th grotesque if you like.
So here you have 2 IC's and 3 grotesques with strenght 6 upgrade, 2 liquifiers, 2 re-roll to wound instant death weapons at T5(T7 furious charge grotesques, otherwise T6)or under and the agoniser is to help tip the scales more in your favour for kills.
Why the vexator mask? well as i said the agoniser tips the scales more in HTH in your favour, so you want every chance to make him survive longer, its probably the only time i can see it worth the investment.
Its pretty much a death star unit, you have 5 models to allocate wounds with, urien is pretty Tough to kill in that squad, actually the whole squad is pretty tough to kill.
If any of you are good with wound allocation you know that this squad will stay around for a very long time as you simply apply wounds until everyone is at 1, urien is great for this and should really be taking the first wound of the squad every time, so he regains it in the following turn, the clone field in HTH makes him really survivable, apply this to high str hits like powerfist etc as str4 hits still need 5's to wound.
the squad is fearless, FNP and furious charge and has T5 all round, it will take an immense amount of shots to take them down, even in HTH they are insane to fight against.
basically it should stomp stomp killy death anything it comes close to, bar dreadnoughts and landraiders.
If you are running a true coven list i recommend the following.
same setup again except 6-7 grotesques walking on from the WWP.
One of the main advantages of using urien is for his pain tokens- you get 2-4 when using him
therefore urien gets a lot of free stuff if you add it up, so is he worth the points? definitely. however he is a character you need to build your army around IMO as he makes a particular type of army, namely coven and coven hybrids a lot better.
example army for WWP:
other than the urien death star unit
3 x 5 scourges 2 x haywire(its your anti tank, stun lock to help talos to get where they need to be)
2-3 talos 0-1 cronos(personally i would take the cronos, if its works its a little pain token machine, i have had success with it)
WWP dlivery system( only 1 you may wanna take 2, but 1 should be fine)
WWP 1) 4 incubi,heamy wwp, liquifier, VB venom + extra SC
WWP 2) 4 truborn either blasters or Sc's, same type of heamy
WWP 3) 4 wracks same heamy
2 units of wyches with their upgrades(may wanna take 15 for fun) haywires are a must and attached heamie from WWP delivery system and one you have spare, heamy armed with VB and liquifier, this is where the cronos mainly comes in to boost wyches more.
3 units of 10 wracks, you are gonna make these units furious charge at str4 they can still hurt vehicles and get a re-roll to wound in HTH T4 or under. i think you have points for a 4th if you choose to go incubi or trueborn route with WWP delivery
this army comes out close to 2000pts it gives you some flexibility of upgrades and squad changes if need be.
you may think it lacks anti-tank but when you are that close hitting tanks it hurts, you have scourges to keep tanks still using haywires to stunlock, with a lucky shot you may well just blow stuff up too, talos also are armed with haywire, theres a little theme here, tons of haywire and tons of medium to high str hits with very difficult to kill units.
hope this gives an idea of how to run a coven list with urien, i have seen this type of army used elsewhere on the net too.
Oh something i forgot to mention with regards to the WWP delivery, theres a 1/3 chance you will get DOW, if this happens you may think WTF i'm i doing with incubi or trueborn, you can simply detach the heamy from the squad and place him on his own or with a unit of wracks (well hidden of course). he then deploys the portal and hides behind it until your new friends arrive the following turn. You should be playing with proper terrain, if not you are DE and its a major disadvantage to you, its wrote how much terrian to use in the rulebook so always demand that this rule is always in force when playing.
Last edited by dizzie; September 27th, 2011 at 23:43. Reason: WWP system for got to mention
If you're always worried about crushing the ants beneath you...you won't be able to walk.
Wow dizzie, you just summed up just about everything.
One little note about Urien's clone field - a savvy player can really screw him up if he decides to send a bunch of higher initiative attacks at Urien. There, you have to decide if you want to use his clone field then or wait for the power fist to show up. This happened in one game where I had to defend Urien against power weapon attacks at one initiative and then had to let the 2 powerfists in that got him killed with the slower initiative.
As for Urien and the squad - be sure to include the shooting phase before charging, the casket is a little "orky" but the liquifier from the Grotesques and the Haemy are usually solid (when the casket works well, it becomes a slaughter).
"On a hunch, I melted them down and inhaled the fumes and read the dark eldar codex again, AND FOUND A BUNCH OF NEW RULES HIDDEN BEHIND THE OTHER WORDS..." [Gardeth on modelling & interpreting the DE Codex]