Quick Tau Question - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

Welcome to Librarium Online!

Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!

Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!


Register Now!

User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 16
  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Age
    28
    Posts
    3
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    1 (x0)

    Quick Tau Question

    I realize there are rumors that Tau might be one of the next(ish?) armies to get revamped by GW, but I'm thinking of starting one sooner rather than later...my only question is whether or not an all 'Tau" army is viable...I really like the Tau for there battlesuits and fire warriors, I guess I would want to do like a fire line type army...not big on the Kroot...so is it viable or no?


  2. Remove Advertisements
    Librarium-Online.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Senior Member SavageConvoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Jax, Florida
    Age
    32
    Posts
    290
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    26 (x1)

    Kroot are only useful in a few ways right now. The most commong being used as walls or screening units. Basically just intercepting charging units so they can't get to suits. There are a few other ways that they are used, but it's not a neccessity.

    They are cheap and easy to sacrifice. I suggest using them, but by no means are you required to. If you find a way to work around it, your lists will still be effective.

  4. #3
    I am a free man! number6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    The Village
    Posts
    4,941
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    ReputationReputation
    786 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by SavageConvoy View Post
    They are cheap and easy to sacrifice. I suggest using them, but by no means are you required to. If you find a way to work around it, your lists will still be effective.
    The way SavageConvoy describes how Kroot are used is on the money. But I disagree with his assessment of their necessity. These days, a Tau army without Kroot is a dead army. Tau can only win games because they end after 5, 6, or 7 turns. In that brief amount of time, Tau can buy enough cheap fodder to throw away as sacrificial speedbumps to the enemy. Without those speedbumps, the Tau army is a wet paper punching bag.

    If you don't use Kroot, you can expect to lose just about every game you play.
    ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
    RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014

  5. #4
    The deep down truth Rikimaru's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    York
    Age
    51
    Posts
    5,714
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    724 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by number6 View Post
    The way SavageConvoy describes how Kroot are used is on the money. But I disagree with his assessment of their necessity. These days, a Tau army without Kroot is a dead army. Tau can only win games because they end after 5, 6, or 7 turns. In that brief amount of time, Tau can buy enough cheap fodder to throw away as sacrificial speedbumps to the enemy. Without those speedbumps, the Tau army is a wet paper punching bag.

    If you don't use Kroot, you can expect to lose just about every game you play.
    number6 and I don't agree on a lot of stuff but on this we do, as the codex stands now Kroot are vital. Tau are a sacrifice and firepower army and they cannot do sacrifice without Kroot, simple as that.
    1984

  6. #5
    Senior Member SavageConvoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Jax, Florida
    Age
    32
    Posts
    290
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    26 (x1)

    I just don't see the neccessity in the Kroot. I understand they are cheap, but units that I've been using as a screen and blocker are FW and G.Drones.

    FW cost 10 less than the standard unit of Kroot, they don't have infiltrate but do have some armor. Meaning a flamer won't come by and remove unit with one shooting attack.
    Drones take up a valuable FOC slot, but that isn't the only means of fielding them. I like disengaging G.Drones from vehicles and using them as a mobile walls, that are actually able to cover the field quite fast while still providing some fire.

    I sense the incoming rage comments soon, so let me wrap this up. We have a total of 14 units. Only 9 of which are actual threats and/or decently priced. Kroot are one of those. I wouldn't suggest overlooking the Kroot, but don't let the standard "YOU MUST FIELD THIS UNIT OR" bog you down and prevent you from trying something you want to do. Try it for yourself and see how it works out.

  7. #6
    I am a free man! number6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    The Village
    Posts
    4,941
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    ReputationReputation
    786 (x8)

    Fire Warriors cannot infiltrate. This is incredibly important for blocking purposes.

    10 Kroot are 70 pts. 6 FWs are 60 pts. You can't seriously believe that 6 FWs -- the only way they are "cheaper than Kroot" -- can absorb -- or dish out -- as much punishment as 10 Kroot? Don't stupidly bunch your Kroot up and you won't have to worry overmuch about flamers.

    As for armour saves: Kroot should be getting cover more often than not. For most purposes, that makes their "armour save" exactly equivalent to FW saves. Give them the benefit of forests/woods/jungle, and they have Marine "armour" saves -- with a potential 2+ save for going to ground. FWs can't match that.

    Drones off of vehicles are indeed of paramount importance as well. And if they were enough, you wouldn't need Kroot, too. But they aren't enough.
    ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
    RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014

  8. #7
    Son of LO Marnepup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Tokyo
    Age
    37
    Posts
    3,532
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    298 (x8)

    Don't "stupidly bunch up" and you can forget about a cover save. The upside of FW is that they can speedbump in the open.

    Someone who tells you you can't win without kroot is the same person who will tell you that you can only win by castling in a corner and putting out a solid ring of speedbumps in the hopes that they'll delay the enemy just long enough that you can kill them just fast enough to eke out a win. That actually works pretty well in a kill points game (which seems illogical, since you're deliberately handing out free KP), but when you need to move out from your starting point to claim and contest objectives, it just gets you penned in in your corner while the enemy's second wave sips mojitos on the OBJ.

    Personally, I prefer to actually maneuver my tau. And that doesn't work at all without mobile screens (erm, kroot). The difference is that instead of being tied to a line in the sand, the kroot are tied to a unit of battlesuits. If the suits advance, so do the kroot. If they fall back, so do the kroot... The kroot are more than just assault screens, they're mobile 4+ cover. MY way doesn't work without tau, Six's way doesn't work without tau, but I'm by no means willing to rule out the existence of A way that works without them.

    I'm a big fan of kroot, but their absence doesn't force an auto-loss. It just makes things dramatically harder for an army that already has an uphill fight. Personally, I'd say that kroot are only the third most important element in a list, after rail guns and plasma rifles, but it is possible to win without any one of the three...
    IG since 1999 __ DA since 2002 __ Tau since 2005 __ SoB since 2007
    Brets 1997-1999 __ TK since 2009 __ Empire since 2010

  9. #8
    I am a free man! number6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    The Village
    Posts
    4,941
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    ReputationReputation
    786 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Marnepup View Post
    Don't "stupidly bunch up" and you can forget about a cover save.
    Explain. Is it really that hard to ensure 50% of a unit gets cover without bunching up in a blob? I have never found that be the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marnepup
    The upside of FW is that they can speedbump in the open.
    How will you get them there as quickly as Kroot can be there? You can't. You don't have infiltrate. Infiltrate >> footslogging. Also, Infiltrate >> starting in a transport.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marnepup
    Someone who tells you you can't win without kroot is the same person who will tell you that you can only win by castling in a corner and putting out a solid ring of speedbumps in the hopes that they'll delay the enemy just long enough that you can kill them just fast enough to eke out a win. That actually works pretty well in a kill points game (which seems illogical, since you're deliberately handing out free KP), but when you need to move out from your starting point to claim and contest objectives, it just gets you penned in in your corner while the enemy's second wave sips mojitos on the OBJ.
    Please please PLEASE stop pretending you understand how to play Tau. It makes me cry big tears like figs that you think people -- or at least myself -- are that stupidly inept.
    ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
    RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014

  10. #9
    Son of LO Marnepup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Tokyo
    Age
    37
    Posts
    3,532
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    298 (x8)

    Explain.
    Obviously, much depends on the terrain that's in use in your store, but if you have 50% of the unit in cover and you take one wound, you have to either remove models that were in the open or lose the save, at least temporarily, in order to maintain your blocking position. If you had just 50% in cover in the first place, you're obviously trying to block an open space while enjoying a cover save...so, damned if you do, damned if you don't....

    How will you get them there as quickly as Kroot can be there? You can't. You don't have infiltrate. Infiltrate >> footslogging. Also, Infiltrate >> starting in a transport.
    ~shrug~

    IMHO, that's not true if the unit's sole purpose is to hold the enemy up for a turn. It doesn't much matter in terms of how many movement/assault phases of the enemy are impacted, the impact is the same. In fact, if the enemy is able to rush in close and then is held up, then systems/platforms that do better at closer range, such as fireknife crisis suits, do better than if the enemy's turn of being unable to close takes place at range. Of course, that's not the only consideration...if you're able to throw down two layers of speedbumps, then of course it's better if one of them is as deep as possible. Another consideration is that many enemy units will be meched up at the start, and infantry don't make decent blockers until they're demeched...which may well mean that they'll tankshock their way through a deep blocker because they're still inside a not-yet-popped can... My point is that infiltration isn't the be all to end all of blocking infantry.


    Please please PLEASE stop pretending you understand how to play Tau. It makes me cry big tears like figs that you think people -- or at least myself -- are that stupidly inept.
    Rude much? I haven't accused you, or anyone, of ineptitude... I've only accused you of of being intolerant of anyone who doesn't share 100% of your views on tau... One excellent example being, well, me. I agree with 95% of what you say, and yet you flame me for disagreeing with the other 5-10%.
    IG since 1999 __ DA since 2002 __ Tau since 2005 __ SoB since 2007
    Brets 1997-1999 __ TK since 2009 __ Empire since 2010

  11. #10
    I am a free man! number6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    The Village
    Posts
    4,941
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    ReputationReputation
    786 (x8)

    [shrug] I'm not the one that doesn't know how to play.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marnepup
    Someone who tells you you can't win without kroot is the same person who will tell you that you can only win by castling in a corner and putting out a solid ring of speedbumps in the hopes that they'll delay the enemy just long enough that you can kill them just fast enough to eke out a win. That actually works pretty well in a kill points game (which seems illogical, since you're deliberately handing out free KP), but when you need to move out from your starting point to claim and contest objectives, it just gets you penned in in your corner while the enemy's second wave sips mojitos on the OBJ.
    I mean, I don't know where to begin. Castle deployment does not equal static gameplay.
    Lack of Kroot definitely does mean not enough blocking units on the table so you aren't penned in a corner and forced to play statically.
    And so on, and so forth....
    ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
    RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts