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    Is it possible to have an effective Tau army without Kroot?

    Hi, I'm a Tyranid collector looking to possibly start collecting some Tau stuff mainly because I think the Fire Warriors look absolutely dope. However my main concern is that I really don't like the look of the Kroot troops. Is it possible to have an effective army without them or at least limiting the amount you use substantially?

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    Stirling haddatt's Avatar
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    It is absolutely possible to have an effective Tau list without Kroot. However, Kroot are just really versatile and offer the only real CC choice we have. Crisis suits are a great unit and while many people will knock the usefulness of our Fire Warriors, they are a great troop choice. high strength weapon with a great range. If you combine with pathfinders, they can really do some damage.

    Really though, if it is just looks that is making you not choose the Kroot, there are many conversion opportunities to make "Fire Warrior" Kroot or my favorite, "Catachan" Kroot. There are even possibilities with making conversions for drones into Kroot. I have a drone I converted into a kroot hound that I really like.

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    Kroot are the best. I load up on them big time. But yes, you don't need them.

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    Honestly, I don't think it's possible to make an effective Tau army without at least 2 units of 10 Kroot. The only reason Tau are still viable is because games end after 5, 6, or 7 turns. The only reason Tau can even survive that long is because we can toss away sacrificial speed bumps to occupy the enemy just long enough that we can shoot them down before they reach us for assault. Even Necrons can kick Tau butt in assault, that's how bad we are.

    Without Kroot (and Piranhas), there is nothing preventing a determined enemy from rolling up to you and annihilating us. We have excellent firepower, but only average mobility. And even the best firepower still has to hit, wound, and get failed saves. (Or hit, penetrate AV, and then roll a damaging result.) That's a lot of dice that have to be rolled to get results. It's not like you can count on your hammerhead to destroy a tank every turn you have.

    So you simply have to have ways to survive just statistically average dice rolls! Kroot are absolutely critical to achieving this.
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    Kroot are one of the best value units in the game in any codex, though they are still well behind those bloody Grey Knight scoring henchmen . They Infiltrate which is handy. They have Stealth (well... pseudo stealth) which is handy. The score which is handy. And most important, they are cheap enough that the opponent killing them (and thus not killing something else) is GOOD for you.

    Particularly compared to Fire Warriors they look golden. Fire Warriors have a useless gun (can't win a firefight with it, because if you are using it it means you aren't in a transport), have no special rules and cost to much. The only reason to take Fire Warriors is because you have to or to unlock more Devilfish.
    Last edited by kroxigor01; January 3rd, 2012 at 03:59.

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    To take the position that it's impossible to field an effective tau army without kroot puts one 99% of the way towards taking the position that it's impossible to field an effective tau army full stop.

    Personally, I'd say that we're so close to getting our new codex that it's a silly thing to worry about, since the truth is about to change. I'd recommend building an army without them for the time being (so what if you lose a game or three in the next few months while waiting for the new book to vault tau into MASSIVELY OP status), and reevaluate after the new codex is released.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kroxigor01 View Post

    Particularly compared to Fire Warriors they look golden. Fire Warriors have a useless gun (can't win a firefight with it, because if you are using it it means you aren't in a transport), have no special rules and cost to much. The only reason to take Fire Warriors is because you have to or to unlock more Devilfish.
    Sorry but this is not true. I know plenty Tau players have this same opinion but my opponents fear my fire warriors because of their gun. 30 range at str 5 can be damn effective if you know how to use it. Also, I never take (or very rarely take) devilfish with my firewarriors as I use the mandatory ones that come with my pathfinders.
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    Quote Originally Posted by number6 View Post
    Honestly, I don't think it's possible to make an effective Tau army without at least 2 units of 10 Kroot. The only reason Tau are still viable is because games end after 5, 6, or 7 turns. The only reason Tau can even survive that long is because we can toss away sacrificial speed bumps to occupy the enemy just long enough that we can shoot them down before they reach us for assault. Even Necrons can kick Tau butt in assault, that's how bad we are.

    Without Kroot (and Piranhas), there is nothing preventing a determined enemy from rolling up to you and annihilating us. We have excellent firepower, but only average mobility. And even the best firepower still has to hit, wound, and get failed saves. (Or hit, penetrate AV, and then roll a damaging result.) That's a lot of dice that have to be rolled to get results. It's not like you can count on your hammerhead to destroy a tank every turn you have.

    So you simply have to have ways to survive just statistically average dice rolls! Kroot are absolutely critical to achieving this.
    While I pretty much have to agree with this and Kroot are invaluable (because while I love Fire Warriors and I used them in earlier lists in 4th they just do not cut it in 5th).
    I can think of a Krootless Tau list and the only type that has any real chance of surviving is by taking four 6 man FW squads in Devilfish with two units of two Piranhas. Basically build a wall of vehicles while the XV8's and whatever heavy you can fit in takes down the opponents vehicles and other stuff.
    This is what I came up with, it obviously works very differently to the normal Tau list with Kroot/Piranhas because as I said it relies on a wall of 9 vehicles to restrict movement and keep the Fire Warrior, XV, HH and XV88 units safe. her is the list:

    XV8 Shas'Wl with TL MP, PL , multi 93ts
    XV8 BG with MP, PL , multi 72ts

    Fire Warrior unit x 6 FW’s 60pts
    Fire Warrior unit x 6 FW’s 60pts
    Fire Warrior unit x 6 FW’s 60pts
    Fire Warrior unit x 6 FW’s 60pts

    Devilfish with disruption 85pts
    Devilfish with disruption 85pts
    Devilfish with disruption 85pts
    Devilfish with disruption 85pts

    3 x XV8 with TL MP, Flamer 141pts
    3 x XV8 with TL MP, Flamer 141pts
    3 x XV8 with TL MP, Flamer 141pts

    2 x Piranhas, 1 with disruption and fusion 135pts
    2 x Piranhas, 1 with disruption and fusion 135pts
    1 x Piranha with disruption and fusion 70pts

    Hammerhead with railgun, BC, multi and DP 165pts
    Hammerhead with railgun, BC, multi and DP 165pts
    2 x XV88 with A’S’S 160pts

    1998pts

    Not a list I would routinely use due to line of sight problems and problems fitting that many vehicles (HH's and DF are big models) into certain deployments (table quarters) but I can see it working quite well as it still has formidable firepower. keep the FW's in reserve if needed and get them into the DF when needed. You could even use the list as a mobile list (keeping the DF/FW units moving to keep them safe). Anyway thats what I came up with.
    Last edited by Rikimaru; January 3rd, 2012 at 21:53.
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    Hmmm. You know, that don't look half bad. Enough disposable drone pairs to possibly make up for lack of Kroot. I think I'd still want to exchange one FW+Devilfish pairing for 2x 10 Kroot (finding 3 pts from somewhere to make up the deficit). I think that would make it even better. But I gotta say.: I think that list is a competitor as is!
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    Quote Originally Posted by haddatt View Post
    Sorry but this is not true. I know plenty Tau players have this same opinion but my opponents fear my fire warriors because of their gun. 30 range at str 5 can be damn effective if you know how to use it. Also, I never take (or very rarely take) devilfish with my firewarriors as I use the mandatory ones that come with my pathfinders.
    They can only be useful against the most one-focused of melee lists. Most lists can make foot units disappear (particularly with fire warriors having LD7). Also, S5 guns cannot hurt vehicles.

    Comparing with my experience with Imperial Guard, I can take a troop Heavy Weapon Squad for 75 points with 3 Heavy Bolters. But S5 is terrible, I'd much prefer to give them Autocannons or Lascannons, or better yet, drop them, buy a huge blob of stubborn troops and screen all my good stuff from elites/fast attack/heavy support. If you don't get good troops like Chaos or Space Wolves (or admittedly, IG veterans) it is normally better to take cheap troops and do survival/screening rather than trying to make them heroes.

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