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Mandrakes

2K views 18 replies 9 participants last post by  Strategist 
#1 ·
I haven't seen a lot of posts on here about Mandrakes. What are your guys thoughts on Mandrakes and the Mandrake hero? Also, what style of army is the best to run them with?
 
#2 ·
A lot of people will tell you that Mandrakes can't compete with the other Elite choices. They are severely lacking in squad upgrades and character equipment upgrades, and the shooting attack will only be available when you have at least one pain token. Their 'Hidden Deployment' rule from their 2nd edition codex got changed into the ability to Infiltrate, which, of course, can be handy (Outflank is still a nice option), but isn't as fluffy.

What remains is a unit with Infiltrate, strength 4, a 5+ invulnerable save and no ranged and close combat weaponry to speak of.

I, however, almost always use a unit, 10 strong with the character upgrade for extra leadership, and let it Outflank. Purely putting pressure on your opponent by having units in reserve which can pop out close to his lines is nice to have. And if that same unit is able to get into my opponents deployment zone, even better. With strength 4, you can even consider charging a vehicle which has a rear armour value of 10.
 
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#3 ·
Another solid option is to deploy your mandrakes about near the middle of the board in 4+ cover. Take the typical squad of 1 haemonculus with 4 trueborn (with blasters) in a venom and move it forward 12 and disembark. The trueborn shoot up the vehicle of your choice. The haemonculus seperates from the trueborn and brings the pain token to the mandrakes. The Haemonculus might also deploy a WWP for beasts/talos to pop out from. The mandrakes are now shooting and pinning enemies and with their stealth/invuln saves you are saving 3+/5++. Just in case you didn't shoot the enemy dead you still have 12 shots of SC from your venom. I think this strategy could be a decent way to really control one side of the board or objectives.
 
#4 ·
Mandrakes are good, but need an army built around them which is unfortunate, they are essentially lesser deamons that can infiltrate and have stealth, which is pretty funky.
They work well in WWP armies, however with the prevalance of LD10 armies their special isn't that great, would be good choices if your demograph took mostly xenos armies.
There are a few tricks however, using raiders with -1 LD ect, infiltrating them to tie up heavy squads, scare tactics to deploy WWP ect, or scare tactics in general. Their effectiveness is how much of your army you devote to making them solid choices.

I overlooked this in the past, but they can be quite effective against IG parking lot armies too, 30 auto hits at str4 can do a good bit of damage, on average of 5 glances and that could mean the world of difference at times in initial turns, you only need to shut down a few tanks in first turn to really take the sting out of them.
 
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#5 ·
My thoughts on the two times I have used them (both against marines):

I believe GW made them with 6th edition in mind as they just seem incomplete in 5th. For 5th edition, due to not having grenades they will need to pin any target so they can charge at initiative. They seem to be the perfect wwp escort providing stealth and being able to infiltrate to a forward position on the board.

As for performance, they are perfect for T3 non-marine lists. I used them in one game just for shooting purposes as they harassed land speeders all game (destroying one and continually shaking the other for 2 or 3 turns). I find that them being strength 4 in close combat and shooting that they can put some decent pressure on light transports and marines but not like you would with wyches or incubi. They are a nuisance if you use them right and that doesn't sit well with most competitive players so no, they will just get overlooked.

Kheradruahk is a similar problem, he just seems too incomplete for 5th edition rules, I think he will get better with 6th. I used him in a kill point game and had him declare the head of a TechMarine. I placed him a few inches away in cover and he survived the enemy shooting phase just fine and then he was charged! I believe it was the Techmarine and 3 or 4 servitors and was able to decapitate the Techmarine immediately. He then survived the servitors attacks and in the next phase he immediately killed all the servitors - he scored me 2 kill points and with 1 wound left he slid back into the shadows (cover) and had him hide for the rest of the game.

Again, he would do fine against non-marines but I can't help but think he is too much of a liability.
 
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#9 ·
In my experience this option is not always as solid as MrVegas said. I wanted to try this vs IG but was countered by scouting Vendetta's blowing up my Venom. Sure it was not a good strategy to bet on WWP vs IG but in my feeling you need to invest a lot in this synergy without knowing if it will pay off.

Some point of vulnerability: FnP doesn't work vs S6+, which can also come in large blasts and effectively does kill off a 10 men Mandrakes squad.
Mandrakes only have a limited threat range so they can be ignored for a while.

It seems to me that they are a unit which is designed for 6th Edition indeed. For now I would use them to outflank and hope to come out on the right flank and that you opponent is pushed away from the short edge. If you can make your opponent react to this unit that would be great.

I am not yet convinced by this unit so I'm sticking to the other ones for now, especially since I don't have 10 models.
 
#10 · (Edited)
First let me advocate Mandrakes are not the better choice for elite selection.
Overall I think most tend to agree Trueborn are the optimal choice since they have a much needed antimech capability that isn't found much elsewhere in the codex. Incubi are also quite playable since they are a cheap source of power weapons and are nice on the costpoint. Incubi do struggle since they don't have grenades but pairing up with an archon or baron seems an easy fix. Wracks are quite amazing but I tend to consider them more as troops because I end up bringing a haemonculi.

I think there is a valid argument for Grotesques but overall I think they are outclassed in the elite slot since they don't they cost 35 points and really struggle to hurt SM since they have 3+ armor saves which is a pretty common enemy. Harlequins, mandrakes, & Bloodbrides just don't seem as appealing as incubi for me given their CC ability and armor saves.

So if you want to choose something for the fun factor go ahead, but I don't think we will see anything besides incubi and trueborn in competitive army lists.
 
#11 ·
I would have to agree with most of the points made above. Mandrakes need a lot of love to make them effective and there is no way of being 100% sure the combo will go off. As for other elite choices being more viable I concur trueborn are a much needed anti tank unit. But I personally love bloodbrides, with a unit of nine you can have three shardnets and if you toss lelith in there you have four. Bringing down the amount of attacks an enemy unit can make, it is a perfect net for deathstar units. I charged this unit into Draigo and his full wing, yeah grenades suck but for three rounds I took two casualties and lelith took care of Draigo by herself.

As for the decapitator. Well he is Damn good at character killing believe you me. But I really think everyone overlooks the lowly webway portal as a means for him to get in the thick of it the turn he comes in. I decapitated Abadon with him out of a portal the guy had no idea what hit him. If I feel a like having a little fun I will throw him in my webway list.
 
#12 ·
But I really think everyone overlooks the lowly webway portal as a means for him to get in the thick of it the turn he comes in.
I interpreted the Decap's "Shade Stalker" rule as meaning he has to deploy a specific way so he can't use the WWP. Even with some rulez lawyering he might be allowed to use the portal but would not be unable to charge the turn he arrives (per the Decaps written rules).

Would love to put him in the WWP but I do not think he can.
 
#13 · (Edited)
No amount of rules lawyering could allow you to do that, His deployment is pretty clear.

He looks bad on paper i admit, I'm afraid his toughness badly lets him down though, with a simple adjustment of T5 he would be worth taking.
I can't really see any pro's for taking him, it's far too difficult to get him close to HTH with an IC and have him make his points back before getting shot to crap or run down first. A typical squad will kill him with weight of attacks due to that low T, even with FNP and that 5+inv.
I can really see no solid use for him other than get lucky and get into CC with an IC, its doable but i really don't like the odd's.

Now what i'm wondering is has anyone actually used him?
If anyone has a good tatica on using him i'm all ears, I hope i missed something cause i've been itching for a chance to use him without completely regretting it, even in friendly games.
The only real tactic i can think of is using mandrakes to envelope him, it still gets him way up the field, provides him with 4+ cover, but this means using another lack luster choice, so if my maths is right two negatives make a plus, Yeah i wish!...
now i've not tried it, but the benefits don't appeal to me to try it either, there's plenty of other choices in our codex that get the job done better and with less risk.

In friendly games he would be fun to use in a fluffy aspect, i like his fluff, its evolved from last edition but man they could have made his rules better.
Very hit or miss and i envision it as more miss than hit.
 
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