Welcome to Librarium Online!
i'm new to W40k and have only played the Battle for Black Reach once, so this list and the deployment of it is surely not the best. Advice and critique would be much appreciated.
I currently own all of the lists models and also:
5 Swooping Hawks + Exarch
I can buy more models/vehicles in the future, but a complete overhaul would be a little bit too costly.
I of course start with playing in the local gaming community, but for the future i'm open for tournaments and i hope this list is it to a certain degree too.
Concerning strategy: I believe i have to walk to most of my enemies (mostly Space Marines here) and therefore this „formation“ is for this purpose, if there are not many terrain pieces for providing cover.
Points i'm unsure about:
Where to put Eldrad
Fire Dragon squad in the open behind cover/Falcon feasable?
I hope the illustations are not to hard on the eye
*************** 2 HQ ***************
- - - > 155 Points
- - - > 210 Points
*************** 3 Elite ***************
7 Harlequins, 6 x Kiss, Death Jester, Shadowseer
- - - > 190 Points
5 Fire Dragons, Exarch, Firepike
- - - > 100 Points
5 Fire Dragons
- - - > 80 Points
*************** 5 Troops ***************
10 Guardians, Scatter Laser
+ Warlock, Wraithseer, Conceal -> 46 Pts
- - - > 141 Points
10 Guardians, Scatter Laser
- - - > 95 Points
10 Dire Avenger, E-Weapon & Shimmershield, Defend
- - - > 162 Points
10 Dire Avenger
- - - > 120 Points
5 Dire Avenger
- - - > 60 Points
*************** 3 Heavy Support ***************
Falcon, Eldar Missile Launcher, Holofield, Soulstones
- - - > 180 Points
Wraithlord, 2x Flamer, Eldar Missile Launcher, Scatter Laser
- - - > 135 Points
2x War Walker, 4x Scatter Laser
- - - > 120 Points
Points Eldar : 1748
Hmm where to start? I'll just focus on a coupe of points.
First the fire dragons behind the Falcon probably won't work very well as the falcon should be jetting off and leaving them behind, or worse case it gets toasted and they get caught in the explosion.
Secondly, remember that conceal only offers a 5+ save which is not super reliable, and totally useless against flamers. Even being fortuned by a farseer, I don't like this as it smacks of cannon fodder and that is not the Eldar way.
Hm yes the Falcon exploding could be very bad indeed, but if los-blocking terrain or good cover saves are available then the Falcon is not needed as "kuddle-object".
I can understand why 10 Guardians with propably no armor and only a 5+ cover save are not invincible, but maybe the best first line compared to the Dire Avengers or the Harlequins?
Anyway i hope this list is not totally useless and at least the units fit to some degree together.
And regarding the eldar way: I dont know if hiding in serpents is either. One could argue that this mech eldar style is of course about deceiving the enemy and
striking at his weak points. But i personally just dont like the idea of hiding my whole army in transports. While of course i dont mind Serpents/Falcons as transports itself,
but spamming them.
Thanks for your comments on the army. These are only my horrific ideas put together so any critique is very welcome.
Greetings and a nice weekend
Totally respect you wanting to run a foot slogger army, so I'm not going to 'big up' the wave serpent. To your other points though, actually the quins maybe a better screening option as 1) their 5+ save is inv and with veil of tears max range to shoot these guys is 24" so some stuff may be out of range, throw a far seer in there and yo can fortune the lot and also take a couple of wounds on him before losing any quins. I appreciate it's expensive, but they should be in the front ranks running towards the enemy anyway.
I still think the idea of foot slogging fire dragons is a poor tactical choice so you may need to think of an alternative vehicle hunting unit? Maybe a job for s.hawks? Not that I'm a big fan but in your list they could work.
I'd certainly be interested I knowing how this list gets on in your first battle.
The harlequins in first row with veil of tears is of course an interesting idea. I presume that they grand cover saves to their comrades behind them despite being kind of invisible for the enemy?
But if i'm closing to the enemy maybe the harlequins should get back a bit. By the way i thought of them more of a counter-cc unit to help my avatar/wraithlord or other units in cc out instead of charging on their own.
With the exception of enemies like tau etc.
Considering the FDs on foot you are probably right. But here my local gaming group is kind of crazy about 2000P games. I believe i have to throw models onto the table to be able to play x) . So maybe i give the hawks a try although i bought them
more for their looks than for their impact. Maybe a little seer council or the vyper with double shurikens or one eml to fill the points to 2000.
Perhaps i'm making some photos with my poor old 2MP digicam and accompany it with my bad english skills to make the experience absolutely perfect. But i have to assemble and paint the stuff first.
So thats more of a future thing in one or two weeks maybe.
Thanks again for the help.
Last edited by Torti; March 10th, 2012 at 23:03. Reason: english writing skill: handicapped ape
Well good luck and post back on how the first battle goes.
Lemmi think about thise. Now, on one hand full up mech is the direction a lot of people feel driven, but on the other hand weapon systems designed to whack mid armor transports like ours are becoming very popular in the metagame. So lists using fewer or no serpents seem to be what actually works in a tournament setting.
As for your forces, in most cases I would highly advise against putting the harlies out in front. It's way too easy for a mechanized opponent to zip forward and mow them down with rapid fire weapons.
I'd be tempted to actually merge your two guardian squads into one big one with conceal, then fortune them with Eldrad. This could provide a strong and wide screen, pretty resiliant against most shooting, and since they're fearless they might actually survive being charged. On that note I might actually put the avatar well forward (he'd be the other prime target for fortune because he should always get a save of some kind, and will also probably draw a lot of fire. Putting the avatar forward also means that he might be able to actually use his shooting attack to good effect.
DA can go behind them to get a cover save that way.
The harlies are then a countercharge unit mostly.
I think I might drop the second dragon unit and put that guy into the flacon to make one good unit of dragons, maybe get tank hunter for them, it's got to work when they make their move.
The falcon will probalby draw a lot of fire. I could see having it move slowly while firing and then zip ahead to prevent your "line" from getting nailed by something especially nasty. Or have it roam. I'd probalby outflank the walkers.
I'm unsure of what weapons to give the wraithlord. Make sure you don't superglue anything down unless your primary goal with him is to win modeling award. Magnetize or use a tacky glue so you can pull weapons off.
Oh, and proper use of cover is going to be vital to your success I think. Be careful of opponents trying to get you to march across an open plain while they blast away at you. You will lose that kind of a fight.
While the guardians in a squad of 20 provide one scatter laser less they all get conceal so hm that might be a great idea. The only thing i worry about is that i have one less unit to hold an objective that way.
The avatar up front could also be good and i dont know if it is even possible to geht a cover save for him with my infantry since he's big.
What i was wondering is: If i have my guardians up front and the models bases have enough space between them, would it be legal if i get my shimer shield-DAs at the front in my movement phase? Or could this be tricky?
The war walkers outflanking is an interesting idea but i fear i lack anti av10/11 options if they are not on the table at the start. Maybe shuriken cannons instead, if i outflank them?
I hope the falcon is to some extend resilient with the holofield/stones combo, i really do ^^
Thanks again for the feedback.
Actually, getting multiple objectives can be a problem for footslogging eldar. The sepcialized nature of eldar forces mean they tend to need some mutual support. Though unlike somebody stuck in the back firing a lascannon, they are at least mobile. Also the falcon could zip around to get a depleted squad of DA or something and zip for an objective if it survives. But you can try different things.
Also wraithguard seem a popular option for footslogger types. They're resiliant and tough. Put them in cover with enhance or march them around with conceal and make them your fortune recipients. Then the guardians can be whereever (though guardians are so easy to take out without things like countercharge units or conceal, or rerolls etc).As a MC he doesn't automatically get a cover save for having some screening troups, you actually have to make is so the shooter can't see half of him. Though as MCs go he's pretty short, wraithguard might be able to do it. Maybe infantry in conjunction with a tree or something.The avatar up front could also be good and i dont know if it is even possible to geht a cover save for him with my infantry since he's big.
But the point is that he doesn't really need a cover save because he's got a 4+ invule and a 3+ armor save, and he'll almost always get to roll one or the other of those. So he can be hard to bring down when fortuned. Also he completely ignores heat based weapons, so chimeltavets aren't even a threat to that guy.I think you should be able to do that if you needed to.What i was wondering is: If i have my guardians up front and the models bases have enough space between them, would it be legal if i get my shimer shield-DAs at the front in my movement phase? Or could this be tricky?You are short on shooting, so maybe it would make sense to put them on the table. Maybe behind some things. You're free to mix that up game to game. For example some game you might really really want to have a way to get at some hidden artillary. Either way I think you'll want the reach of scatter lasers.The war walkers outflanking is an interesting idea but i fear i lack anti av10/11 options if they are not on the table at the start. Maybe shuriken cannons instead, if i outflank them?It is. Not as much as it used to be if AP1 weapons are shooting at you though, you'll want to avoid them. You could in many cases get some more resiliance by adding vectored engines and going flat out, however that means you aren't taking advantage of their shooting, which you kinda need. The falcon is a tricky thing in that you want to shoot...but also want to deliver those dragons.I hope the falcon is to some extend resilient with the holofield/stones combo, i really do ^^
Oh, and if you have more points from dropping a guardian scatter laser and 4 dragons maybe consider getting the falcon a shurican cannon. Falcons have a way of losing their main weaponry.
Maybe have the falcon advance with the main force and hop forward to take out any vehicle that seems particularly dangerous that's getting too close. Or again, maybe send it around if something really needs to die.
Thanks again for the help.
I was wondering what you meant by "chimeltavets" sunnyside, my dictionary wont tell me what it is.
All in all lots of options but i think i will discover which one i use when i have more experience. But it looks at least that this list is not absolutely unplayable (because no one hinted it) so i hope i will be fine.
A more decisive battle is at the moment fought between me and gesso primer. Hope i'll win this one x).