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Just a quick age old question, Do you think the incubi are a points sink or are they so worth their points you just have to take them?
Sorry guys but I have to start, I see them as well worth their points, I've heard alot of people just say they don't take them because they cost to much and they become a massive target and just get shot up. In the last couple games I've had though they have been vital in the last few turns. I take them with an archon with soultrap, shadowfield, ghostplate armour and huskblade, mounted in a raider with a disintegrator and speed them around some cover and unleash them on the opponents MEGA COMBAT HQ UNIT....
Thats just my say, What load outs and tactics do you guys use (if at all)?
the main reason why people dont take them is because they take up an elites spot which most people use for blasterborn. i have used incubi in the past and had succses with them against regular infantry meq's. however they dont offer much protection to the archon due to a lack of invul saves. i found myself starting to use bloodbrides instead. i would say keep the archon and the incubi separate and keep the incubi at 5-6 members and go after high save units with little combat ability or units who have been whittled down. use the archon with bloodbrides to tackle those elite combat units (shard nets work wonders here).
The only people who flatout write off incubi are those who believe trueborn are the be-all and end-all of DE elite choices. Naturally this is total BS.
Incubi are, however, a very prickly unit to use - yes they have plenty of raw power but balancing their cost against unit size and the various klaivex upgrades (or even the klaivex itself) is a very tricky proposition. The "classic" setup as it were is 4-6 incubi (I roll 5 myself) with an agoniser archon with phantasm grenade launcher. You can use other weapons on the archon if you so desire, but that changes how incubi work in some ways which further proves they need to kept lean and mean for their role. Namely all of the other options bar huskblade gear the archon for infantry killing, thus you will have a unit that has no way whatsoever of handling high toughness.
The huskblade is a character/MC killer at its heart and neither of these roles truly sit well with incubi (even with a kalivex) as you'll typically take horrendous losses getting the job done - especially if you can't strike before said IC (taking on MC's is suicide in general).
Moving on from this you can also run incubi with a haemonculus for a pain token from the get-go. This setup lacks grenades but you have some decent durability via FnP and 3+ armour. Here 6 or 7 incubi are usually enough to get the job done against anything other than other CC specialists (like say, genestealers). No grenades hurts but you have numbers to tank normal attacks and few enemy quads will have loads of power weapons. A klaivex can be used here but he is probably best kept naked (unless you face tons of eldar, in which case the bloodstone shines) as his LD boost is the important element.
Running incubi on their own as a dedicated unit within their own right is typically asking for 7+ incubi - the klaivex will be almost mandatory but arm him at your own discretion. Pure number crunching says he doesn't really matter until about 8 strong but with so many bodies onslaught starts to be really good. Again with o grenades cover is a pain but the plan is simple annihilation.
Lasty you can run 5 in a venom as a cleanup strike squad - typically this setup is used in a very shooting heavy force that pulls units from fast attack as well to have a wide range of units. Here the incubi will be used to either assault units just to stop them shooting, act as a screen when the enemy comes to assault you (hopefully after you've filled them with holes) and generally just deal with units that are floating about but not high priority. Given incubi aren't reliant on many external factors they work reasonably well in this role - especially with their venom backing them up - but they aren't going to take a tactical squad on their own.
IMO the archon + incubi combo is the best setup as the archon covers the incubi's inability to handle T5+ and the incubi provide protection from squads for the shadowfield of the archon all the while costs are fairly low given this is a unit made up of an HQ and an elite CC unit in a transport.
Last edited by The_Outsider; March 13th, 2012 at 20:09.
I use Incubi as the outsider has stated above. Incubi in every game become priority targets for my opponent, this should speak volumes for how good they are.
I've seen 7 incubi mow down up to 30 marines, once they gain FNP they are pretty unstopable in HTH due to their high I.
I prefer incubi over blaster trueborn, but this comes down to play style, the only issue with incubi is lack of grenades, so sometimes you may have to be patient rather than choosing to charge through cover, with FNP I find it negates the losses you may have seen due to charging through cover.
in my tourney army i'm running 2 x 5 inucbi in venoms, still tweaking this list but it seems solid so far. I'm considering a klavex with bloodstone, its an extra 30pts but that option gives me a better standing against 10+ man squads and reduces my losses when shot and after the charge. It also gives me more options when charging into cover, if you take out enough of your opponents men then not having grenades isn't so bad. I think for 30pts it really is definitely worth taking.
A 5 man incubi squad on venom with 2 SC's is 175pts, go tell that to your opponents, see their reactions.
incubi are more than worth their points, this forum is very blasterborn heavy. But some of us are trying to point out that the blasterborn are not the be all and end all. Infact i really don't like taking them, way too fragile.
If you're always worried about crushing the ants beneath you...you won't be able to walk.
eh hem...I used to use incubi as described above (with PGL/Agonizer archon) with great success, but now I find them to violate one of the key tenants of my DE list building, they are a high points target whose lose hurts me. I prefer to keep all my units cheap and expendable so that no one loss diminishes my overall ability.
There are a few problems i've had with incubi.
1) Lack of grenades
2) Eaten by hordes, or they charge through that 5 man marine squad and get shot up
3) lack of assault grenades
4) PGL archon makes the unit very expensive
5) Wyches are so good. They're scoring, their invul in combat makes them comperable for survivability, have assault and haywire grenades, half the points. I run them with 8 wyches all haywires and a hek with an agonisor. This comes out to 126pts, 6 incubi are 122 so this is a comperable unit, the incubi have more killing power but the wyches are so much more versatile. If you dont like wyches we have other CC units like beast packs, who fight as well or better than incubi, wracks who deal with armies like tyranids very well (but what doesnt?) and can score or hellions who can hit and run and have their nice 2 shot assault gun and can score.
IG Best Gen 1st overall of 10 DE 4th overall of 6
Eldar 3rd Overall/Best General of 26--2nd Overall/Best General of 7--1st Overall/Best General of 11
9 Incubi with an Archon in a raider with disintegrator, yes they are a large unit and take up alot of points but first up, If the raider gets shot down i'm not moving wyches across a battlefield where they'll just get shot up before being able to get into assault, If i'm up against a horde army, lets just say tyranids, the disintegrator take out a few models from the swarm hopefully, then out jumps the klaivexs with a bloodstone and basically just flames them with AP 3 its a fairly hardcore weapon but I think alot of people just see it at S3 and leave it alone, then they run in with S4 power weapons with a WS of 5-6 on the charge im dishing out 28 attacks if the whole unit gets in, plus another 5-6 with the archon depending on what he takes, also any 6's and I get extra attacks
But my main point of this is not the tactic advantage or disadvantage, call me a nit picker but the whole idea is do you think their worth the points? For the above amount of combat killy I say yes... I look at it in the sense of 243 points of power weapons that are killing Marines on 4's, with extra attacks granted by 6's, or I can have around 200 points of wyches or trueborn that the enemy gets saves against and no extra attacks and no AP3 flamer lol
Ah the incubi hammer unit, kills everything dead. I used to use these way back last edition, tend not to now, just overkill. for straight up killyness compared with any other unit in our codex at a comparative points cost yes incubi win hands down. However they only fill a single roll which is kill infantry, wyches and blasterborn fill other rolls so its not really a fair comparison, I don't look at my codex and say "oh! i'm gonna bring the killy-est list i can find" i design my lists on synergy, what works well with what, whos supporting who, objective camping, who's on dread duty(yes dreads get a little section of their own), who's on tank duty ect. which units are bait, have i enough venoms for heavy infantry squads ect. Have i enough troops ect.
As gardeth mentioned above, keep units cheap and have more units, the full incubi squad isn't too expensive but when you add the klavex with his upgrades and skills and a raider, not to mention a heamy for that large squad, the points add up and you are looking at 400pts+, also might i add you have just painted a gigantic target on that squad that says please shoot me. two squads of 5 on venoms is less of a target and in most cases gets to where its going without a million crack missile's coming at it. I find keeping units cheap and having more skimmers dazes and confuses my opponents, they can't prioritise correctly, or if they do they just can't deal with the speed and numbers for it to matter, only some of our forces have to get through to really ruin any opponents day.. The DE may be fragile but they hit hard, very hard, even in small numbers.
I find having a great number of venoms helps me to shut down heavy weapon infantry, the incubi fills a very small group of DE units that its worth while taking a venom for, shutting down those heavy weapons turn 1 wins games, Marine variants are taking oodles of missiles these days, maybe your meta is different, but those venoms are very much needed.
If you're always worried about crushing the ants beneath you...you won't be able to walk.