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  1. #1
    Son of LO andrewbeater's Avatar
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    Taking a walk on the dark side

    I was looking at the Necron dex and I had some questions regarding Vargard Obyron's "The Vargard's Duty". It states that when Nemesor Zahndrekh is assaulted, Vargard uses his Ghostwalk Mantle to pile into combat by Zahndrekh's side. But in looking at the rules for the Ghostwalk Mantle it uses a deep strike. In fact, he does not scatter if he is within 6" of Zahndrekh. This raises several questions about this move: 1) Can Obyron attack in the round he comes in? It doesn't say he can assault and usual deep strikes do not allow assaults in the round he comes in. 2) What if Zahndrekh is in terrain? Does Obyron need to take a dangerous terrain test? 3) What if there was a persistent power that interferes with deep strikes such as Warp Quake going in the area? There is nothing in the descriptor that says Obyron is safe from such conditions and I would there think he would mishap, correct? The way I see it the answers are as follows: 1) No, 2) Yes 3) Mishap. Can anyone else see something I didn't? If these answers are correct, I would think it would be a liability to use this power. Has anyone used this combo and how did it work out for you?


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  3. #2
    Senior Member Spittle72's Avatar
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    It does say that he immediately piles in to the combat if Zahndrekh is assaulted. He could attack since he's actually in the combat already.
    Otherwise I would see the normal limitations for Deep Strike applying to any other use of the Ghostwalk Mantle.

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    Son of LO andrewbeater's Avatar
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    Just because you are part of a combat doesn't assume you can assault with the squad does it? I mean, if he lived through the first round of combat, he could assault in the second turn. I do see your point; why pile into combat if you couldn't attack right away. I just wish it was written better. Also, I checked the FAQ and it's not in there.
    Last edited by andrewbeater; March 27th, 2012 at 00:30.

  5. #4
    LO Zealot BossGorestompa's Avatar
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    The rules simply state that he "immediately leaves his unit and piles into [the] combat" with Zahndrekh, "regardless of how far from it he is -- we assume he used the Ghostwalk Mantle to reach his master's side." And later, "Obyron is simply removed from his current location and 'piled in' to Zahndrekh's combat."

    I take this to mean that, rules wise, he is not Deep Striking, he simply appears in the combat with Zahndy.
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    Senior Member slobulous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewbeater View Post
    The way I see it the answers are as follows: 1) No, 2) Yes 3) Mishap. Can anyone else see something I didn't?
    No, the answers are quite the opposite of the way you see it! hehe. 1) Yes 2) No 3) Nothing

    Immediately after Zahndrekh's unit is assaulted, Obyron appears and piles into the combat to defend him. This happens before any blows are struck, therefore he may attack once it is his turn, though he did not charge so will not get the attack bonus. The last line reads "Obyron is simply removed from his current location and piled in to Zahndrekh's combat." It says nowhere that this is an actual Deep Strike move, therefore nothing that affects Deep strike will affect it, including for taking a dangerous terrain check for appearing in terrain. It is a completely separate special rule unique to the Vargard.
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  7. #6
    Son of LO andrewbeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slobulous View Post
    No, the answers are quite the opposite of the way you see it! hehe. 1) Yes 2) No 3) Nothing

    Immediately after Zahndrekh's unit is assaulted, Obyron appears and piles into the combat to defend him. This happens before any blows are struck, therefore he may attack once it is his turn, though he did not charge so will not get the attack bonus. The last line reads "Obyron is simply removed from his current location and piled in to Zahndrekh's combat." It says nowhere that this is an actual Deep Strike move, therefore nothing that affects Deep strike will affect it, including for taking a dangerous terrain check for appearing in terrain. It is a completely separate special rule unique to the Vargard.
    I'll have to disagree. In the Ghost mantle rules, it says it uses the rules for deep striking and does not scatter if he is within 6" of Zahndrekh. Further it states the "we assume he uses the Ghostmantle to reach his masters side". If he uses the Ghost mantle to get to Zahndrekh then it uses the rules for the Ghost Mantle and deep strikes. The fact he does not scatter is of no consequence to a mishap or a dangerous terrain test. It is like the Daemons icon, deep striking units do not scatter within 6" of it. But if you choose to enter play via the icon, you must take tests and if you misjudge the landing site and the footprint of your deep striking unit falls within 1" of your opponent, you still mishap. Also with the Daemonic icon, it does not protect you from Warpquake effects. The fact is the rules in this case allow him to go right beside Zahndrekh, but it falls short of any other description of tests or mishaps due to persistent powers.

  8. #7
    Son of LO thenewKhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewbeater View Post
    I'll have to disagree. In the Ghost mantle rules, it says it uses the rules for deep striking and does not scatter if he is within 6" of Zahndrekh. Further it states the "we assume he uses the Ghostmantle to reach his masters side". If he uses the Ghost mantle to get to Zahndrekh then it uses the rules for the Ghost Mantle and deep strikes. The fact he does not scatter is of no consequence to a mishap or a dangerous terrain test. It is like the Daemons icon, deep striking units do not scatter within 6" of it. But if you choose to enter play via the icon, you must take tests and if you misjudge the landing site and the footprint of your deep striking unit falls within 1" of your opponent, you still mishap. Also with the Daemonic icon, it does not protect you from Warpquake effects. The fact is the rules in this case allow him to go right beside Zahndrekh, but it falls short of any other description of tests or mishaps due to persistent powers.
    You partially just proved against your point, it states "we assume", meaning he COULD be using a different form of transportation, their is no proof as to what is being used, its pure speculation (in theory). It also says "Obyron is simply removed from his current location and 'piled in' to Zahndrekh's combat." It doesn't state he is ACTUALLY using the Mantle at all, nor does it say he is Deep Striking or anything, he simply shows up like a BAMF. Hah

    I would say he just BAM! Shows up. He isn't technically using the mantle, because it is assumed.

    HOWEVER, it doesn't actually state anything about before blows are struck, so that could potentially cause a new argument. lol It does say he leaves his unit "immediately" and piles in, so I would say you assume its before blows are struck, however TECHNICALLY it could be argued against, as it isn't specifically stated...


    Personally I read it as he shows up immediately, piles in and fights normally. No DS rules, no mishaps or anything like that.

  9. #8
    Tabletop Terraformer Tzeentch Lord's Avatar
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    It should be kept in mind that Vargard Obyron has two different methods for 'teleporting' around.

    1) He can use the Ghostwalk Mantle as a Veil of Darkness, employing exactly the same rules. But with the added bonus that if he aims to arrive within 6" of the Nemesor, he doesn't scatter.

    2) When the Nemesor is assaulted, he must perform 'The Vargard's Duty'. This has nothing to do with the first rule or Deep Striking, just follow what 'The Vardgard's Duty' rule says. Pick up Obyron from wherever he is and pile him in to the combat involving the Nemesor. Nothing else needs to happen, no terrain tests (since he's not moving through terrain), no Warp Quake nonsense (since he isn't deep striking at this point). Also note that any unit Obyron was with does not follow him, since the rule does not allow you to do so.
    Finally, Obyron would get to fight, because he piled in [/i]immediately[/i] after the enemy launched their assault.
    So:
    1) enemy launches assault.
    2) Obyron piles in.
    3) Defenders pile in.
    4) Attacks are made.
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  10. #9
    Senior Member Spittle72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzeentch Lord View Post
    He can use the Ghostwalk Mantle as a Veil of Darkness, employing exactly the same rules. But with the added bonus that if he aims to arrive within 6" of the Nemesor, he doesn't scatter.
    *And he can use it even if locked in combat.*

  11. #10
    Son of LO andrewbeater's Avatar
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    Don't get me wrong, I would play it exactly as you say, however we can agree the rule needs clarification because you know sooner or later, people are going to try and say just what I did and try to use it against us.

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