All-Takers Coven Army suggestions - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
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    All-Takers Coven Army suggestions

    So I'm finally starting to peek back into Dark Eldar after having a moment to leaf through the new codex, and after starting to get a little bored with my CSM army. I'm really liking the flavor of a coven army, what with having troops with FNP and haemonculi as HQ. Unfortunately, I have no idea what works and what doesn't. Additionally, my usual opponents have so many armies, and so many different ways to play them that I cannot concieve of a way to effectively tailor a list against them, so I want to try what I did with my CSM army, and come up with an all-takers list that can handle anything efficiently with only minor tweaking (not to mention I am a stingy bastich who wants to buy exactly what is needed and no more).

    I'm trying to figure out a 1500 minimum/2000 preferred list for a coven army. I'd also like to know if it is even possible to make an all-takers list with Dark Eldar. What little I learned looking through the codex seems to suggest DE suffer from the same crippling over-specialization of their normal Eldar cousins.


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  3. #2
    Oh No! Not Him Again! Non Marine Player's Avatar
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    On the contrary, our units are not nearly as specialised as Craftworld Eldar, our units can take on several roles. Unfortunately for you the Coven army is not only the hardest to make properly competitive but also the most expensive to get your troops for. Generally for a theme you'll want Wrack units as troops, but in a more competitive build you'll want a couple of 5 man Warrior squads in Venoms and a Wych squad as well as Wracks for Troops. HQ's will pretty much just be Haemies, with a Webway Portal or 2 to get our fast attack and Heavy Support (Taloi, Cronoi and Scourges) in effective range safely. Those fit the theme, and you may want a squad of Grotesques, who you can take larger and come out of the portal or take 3-4 in a Raider to move up with the rest of your army. Generally for us to be competitive in Coven theme you should take a couple of units of Trueborn to bring some more ranged anti tank and some of the units I've mentioned before. If you wanna write a list from these suggestions and post it I and probably others on the Forum will give you some advice if it's needed =)
    NMP

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    Well, I haven't had the chance to really sit down and come up with a list, but thinking about it I'm starting to consider venom spamming wracks. It doesn't seem like a sound tactic at first, but considering that most games these days are objective-based, having a bunch of small, FNP units on fast transports is pretty tempting. As much as I think ten wracks would be far more effective in CC, my experience with the old codex has me afraid to put anything too expensive into our paper-mache transports.

    So I'd be looking at a slew of Wracks on venoms, some oligatory highborn on venoms to fill out for anti-tank, as well as a squad or two of scourges. I'm finding myself torn between taloi/Chronos engines and Voidravens, and I'm starting to lean towards the fliers for the sake of not having to use a WWP. The situation I find myself in is that I have no idea what to do with the haemonculi. I was thinking of maybe taking just a raider or two to stick them on and give them a bigger loadout of wracks.

    Also, random question: I saw there was an HQ that allows hellions as troops. Is that anything worth considering, or are hellions still about as useful as they were last edition?

  5. #4
    Oh No! Not Him Again! Non Marine Player's Avatar
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    Well, if you're going to be spamming Venom Wracks, make sure you take enough for a Liquifier Gun, those things are one of the main reasons to take Wracks in the first place =P I find that a lot of the heavy lifting in my army is done by the troops, and 5 man Wrack squads just don't do the work for me. Warriors are cheaper and Wyches shouldn't really be taken in Venoms, so having a couple of Wrack units in Raiders would be good for you, having to rely less on other parts of your army and giving you some nice combat units, especially with Haemies in there giving them 2 Pain tokens off the bat. Best loadout for them are probably the cheap ones, Liquifier Gun and Venom Blade is popular, but you can go Agoniser or power weapon should you want some attacks that ignore armour.

    As for the Baron, the Hellions-as-troops HQ, he is considered one of the best characters we have. His ability has been FAQ'd to give us +1 when deciding who goes first, and he gives stealth to his squad, as well as his str 6 on the charge letting him 'solo' tanks and his shadow field letting him stall walkers and such. He is great in a reasonably big unit of Hellions, as they each get 3 str 4 attacks without considering combat drugs, plus he give them re-rolls to dangerous terrain and a free PGL. I'd say there are many more reasons to take hellions in this codex. Plus, if you can keep blocking with them your skimmers, you can pretty much guarantee they'll have that 3+ cover till you get them into combat, where a nice Pain token makes them much better.

    For flyers, I'd take Razorwings, mainly because they come with 4 missiles, and taking voidravens with missiles gets REALLY expensive fast. When you do have a list, put it up =)
    NMP

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    Senior Member andrewthotep's Avatar
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    A lesson I've learned with wracks is apart from a good (for DE) toughness, FNP is all they have to resist being killed. You need to keep them in cover to take advantage of their reroll, because their armour save is laughable.

    That pretty much goes for haemies as well. They get some neat toys, but you really have to keep them out of combat.
    Last edited by andrewthotep; April 11th, 2012 at 23:25.

  7. #6
    Archite of Caerbannog KwiKwag's Avatar
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    This is probably "fluff-nut" question but how closely do you want stick to the theme "Coven"?

    Seems like the list you are evolving towards a more Kabal flavor with the addition of the Baron and Hellions. To give you an idea what a "Coven" list means to me is taking Haemonculi creations whenever possible and avoiding "wych" type units whenever possible (although Kabal units are generally accepted).

    Coven units to me would be: Haemys, Grotesques, Wracks, Scourges, Talos and the Cronos. My last game I played was a "Prophets of Flesh" list (a "Coven" list) at 2k:

    Urien
    3 Haemys
    1 Squad of Grotesques
    4 Squads of Wracks
    2 Squads of Scourges
    3 Talos

    Plugging in a ravager or a squad of warriors or trueborn or even an Archon is not too bad but for me the Baron and Hellions are a little too "wychy" - kinda makes the list more of a Kabal or "Karnival" (my other name for really diverse lists that go from one spectrum to the other freely, wracks and wyches living together in mass hysteria!).

    Don't get me wrong, my favorite wwp list has the Baron and 3 Haemys and it's definitely a "Karnival" with hellions, wyches and wracks for troop choices coupled with bikes, scourges, Talos and a razorwing - practically a circus.

    Just curious, how "theme" do you want?
    "On a hunch, I melted them down and inhaled the fumes and read the dark eldar codex again, AND FOUND A BUNCH OF NEW RULES HIDDEN BEHIND THE OTHER WORDS..." [Gardeth on modelling & interpreting the DE Codex]

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    Quote Originally Posted by KwiKwag View Post
    Just curious, how "theme" do you want?
    I would like to have a theme, but after looking at it real hard I'm not particularly married to the coven idea if it means having lots of trouble against most armies. I was kind of in the mood to field lots of wracks since my most frequent opponent plays Tyranids. Of course, wanting a theme means having to skip out on something necessary, like anti-armor, anti-MC, or anti-horde. I kinda wish I had the option of starting off small, buying a few things, and seeing what fits, but I'm practically not allowed to play anything less than 2000 anymore and there's no way in hell I'm dumping a grand into something that might not hold my interest. But I digress.

    If anything, I want to play an army that's a lot more up-front and CC oriented just to change the pace from playing my CSM gun line. If I were to take hellions, I'd end up ditching the coven idea and going more wych-based, or even try to make it a very aerial-themed force with almost nothing that touches the ground (probably the latter). Again, I'd pretty much be starting the army all over again, buying the new models and such, so as long as I end up with an idea that holds my attention and works in game I'll be happy.

  9. #8
    Archite of Caerbannog KwiKwag's Avatar
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    I never really considered a Coven list to be either a shooty or assaulty list but now that you mention it I suppose it would be more assault orientated especially if you compare it to the internet meta of "Venom Spam" (then again, everything else would be). I am not try to "pigeon hole" you into one style of list but it does help when you are just trying to find your play style - I look at it this way:

    Rush or WWP
    Shooty or Assault
    Themed or Combined arms

    I figure you would ultimately like a rush, assault orientated list that is themed - I would think a list that would fit this build would be more wych orientated however I would still consider using some coven units to make the rush more survivable. For example, taking some Haemonculi and putting them in raiders with wyches so they can survive the crash. I would not be comfortable in using Hellions with the Baron in a list like this as the Hellions would be very vulnerable just putting them on the table or deepstriking them (I always thought Hellions are perfect for wwp lists). The Baron is fine in rush lists as most of the internet like to put him in a squad of Warp Beasts as to give them stealth and grenades. Warp Beasts are obviously slower than squads mounted in raiders but often the raiders and venom squads pop armor and the Beasts clean up the mess. However, the HQ slot can be rather tricky as taking the Baron and 3 haemonculi doesn't really instill fear in the opponent and you better have a good "hammer" unit or unit that can shoot the heck out of the opponents hammer unit.

    A foundation I would start working out what you like would be:

    Baron
    3 Haemonculi
    Trueborn on a venom or Incubi on a raider (haemy with incubi)
    2 Wych units on raiders (a haemy for each wych squad)
    2 Warrior units or 1 warrior and 1 wrack (but minimum 4 troop choices when done)
    Beasts and/or Bikes (Baron w/ beasts, or the Baron could join Incubi but that would be after they disembark)
    2 Ravagers
    1 Razorwing

    This is just to see what you like and do not like - kind of not themed. Basically, you "rush" the opponent and screen the beasts and bikes as much as possible. I love Wracks but they are not for everyone and most competitive choices would avoid them however I think they are not getting a fair wrap and perform just fine in CC (it just takes care in using them and I would not recommend taking too many of them while you are learning the codex). So this is a little closer to wych cult and to get it more themed you can just put in more wyches, try a succubus or try bloodbrides. Not crazy about Lelith but she is definitely themed but notice when I say succubus or Lelith the list gets weaker (but more fun).

    Try building a list or tell us which units you think would be fun or interested in and we can develop a list based on that.
    "On a hunch, I melted them down and inhaled the fumes and read the dark eldar codex again, AND FOUND A BUNCH OF NEW RULES HIDDEN BEHIND THE OTHER WORDS..." [Gardeth on modelling & interpreting the DE Codex]

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    I agree with the some of the previous comments; this is an expensive army to collect and one of our trickier ones to play. With it's lack of firepower it seems to concentrate on Assaults yet the basic troops you have aren't very good. For 2000 points the following has been quite successful for me:

    HQ
    Urien Rakarth x1

    Haemonculus x1
    Agoniser
    Liquifier Gun

    TROOPS
    Wracks x10
    Liquifier Gun x2
    Acothyst x1
    Scissorhand x1

    Wracks x10
    Liquifier Gun x2
    Acothyst x1
    Scissorhand x1

    ELITES
    Grotesque x10
    Liquifier Gun x1
    Strength 6 x10
    Aberration x1

    Grotesque x10
    Liquifier Gun x1
    Strength 6 x10
    Aberration x1


    FAST ATTACK
    Scourges x10
    Splinter Cannon x4
    Solarite x1

    HEAVY SUPPORT
    Talos x3
    Chain Flails x3

    If you play objectives, then never start with the Wracks on the board, always have them coming on from reserve. Use the rest of your force to push forward as far as possible and neutralise any of your opponents units they meet, then when the Wracks come on have them seizing as many objectives as you can behind your own lines.

  11. #10
    Senior Member nigelboyette's Avatar
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    in a list like django's a few WWP's is a must, and the anti armor aspect of it is a bit low (ranged wise). i can really see coven armies performing well but they need a mode of transportation or a way of getting to the enemy fast.

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