It's been a bad day for this Necron player. - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Son of LO andrewbeater's Avatar
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    It's been a bad day for this Necron player.

    Live and learn, that's my motto. I had a 4 player game yesterday where the Space Wolves and White Scar marines were up against my Necrons and Grey Knights. The key words in the last sentence was "Space Wolves". I just found out the very hard way that the Jaws of the World Wolf taken by two Rune Priests hurt Necrons in the worse way. He chewed me up badly with it and there wasn't a lot I could do about it. But I do have a couple of questions about it: 1) Are the specific models under the line hit or can you allocate your losses? 2) Do you get invulnerable saves? 3) Can Lychguard with Dispersion Shields deflect it? 4) Is there any defense against this power? I'm pretty sure I know the answers but just in case I am wrong for the better...


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  3. #2
    Member Cortez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewbeater View Post
    1) Are the specific models under the line hit or can you allocate your losses? 2) Do you get invulnerable saves? 3) Can Lychguard with Dispersion Shields deflect it? 4) Is there any defense against this power? I'm pretty sure I know the answers but just in case I am wrong for the better...
    no invulnerable save as its against initiative.

    Lychgaurd would not reflect it as it is a psychic power ( right? )

    your only defence would be to have a canoptek spider within 6" with a gloom prism.

  4. #3
    Tabletop Terraformer Tzeentch Lord's Avatar
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    My girlfriend's brother uses this power against me whenever we play, as he's well aware of the crappy army-wide initiative of Necrons. :-/
    Last time though I got very lucky as he failed the first two psychic tests his Runepriest made, and I managed to kill the hairy little blighter before he could try it a third time! Anyway...
    Quote Originally Posted by andrewbeater View Post
    1) Are the specific models under the line hit or can you allocate your losses?
    I think it's the models under the line, but I'm not 100% on that.
    Quote Originally Posted by andrewbeater View Post
    2) Do you get invulnerable saves?
    Pretty sure you don't, since if they fail their initiative test, models are removed as casualties.
    Quote Originally Posted by andrewbeater View Post
    3) Can Lychguard with Dispersion Shields deflect it?
    Nope. I don't think it's a shooting attack, so there's no actual shot to deflect.
    Quote Originally Posted by andrewbeater View Post
    4) Is there any defense against this power? I'm pretty sure I know the answers but just in case I am wrong for the better...
    Not really, the only thing you can do is make sure there's as few models as possible in a line that the Runepriest could target. Of course, that doesn't help your characters...

    Don't forget though, I believe you are still entitled to Reanimation Protocol rolls, so any casualties could still pop back up!
    "Peace, through superior firepower."

  5. #4
    Son of LO andrewbeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzeentch Lord View Post


    Nope. I don't think it's a shooting attack, so there's no actual shot to deflect.

    I believe you are still entitled to Reanimation Protocol rolls, so any casualties could still pop back up!
    The Jaws IS a shooting attack that does not require a roll to hit. We went through that theory when we played.
    I thought that we covered reanimation protocols as well somewhere else on this forum and if there was no body to reform, it could not reform.

  6. #5
    Double Clutching Weasel Klajorne's Avatar
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    Yeah, Jaws is pretty much broken. And it's also why the rules for our Death Ray are so convoluted: Mat Ward was trying not to replicate the problems that Jaws created. Spamming rune priests with jaws and living lightning is time honoured Space Wolf cheese. Unfortunately, like many broken units, there isn't too much you can do about it.

    For posterity:

    Jaws of the Wolf World
    "As a psychic shooting attack, the Rune Priest may trace a straight line along the board, starting from the Rune Priest and ending 24" away. This line may pass through terrain. Monstrous creatures, beasts, calvary, bikes and infantry models that are touched by this line must take an Initiative test. If the model fails the test, it is removed from play. Monstrous creatures may subtract one from their dice roll due to their tremendous size and strength, though remember that the roll of a 6 is always a failure."
    -Codex: Space Wolves, pg 37

    Quote Originally Posted by andrewbeater View Post
    1) Are the specific models under the line hit or can you allocate your losses?

    2) Do you get invulnerable saves?

    3) Can Lychguard with Dispersion Shields deflect it?

    4) Is there any defense against this power?
    1) The specific model under the line is targeted. So he can legally snipe out your crypteks or overlords or anybody else in the squad. Best you can try to do is come at him wide. Basically, don't conga line toward his rune priest, spread out to try to minimize the losses.

    2) No saves. The model is simply removed from play (more on this below), so no wounds are created to be saved against.

    3) I would say "no to dispersion shields". The dispersion shield "triggers" off of invulnerable saves. Since the model cannot make an invulnerable save, then you cannot allocated those saved wounds.

    4) Tomb spyders can negate psychic powers. Otherwise, aggressive annihilation of his rune priests. They're cheesy for a reason, expect them to always be a pain in the rear.




    Quote Originally Posted by andrewbeater View Post
    The Jaws IS a shooting attack that does not require a roll to hit. We went through that theory when we played.
    I thought that we covered reanimation protocols as well somewhere else on this forum and if there was no body to reform, it could not reform.
    You're overthinking it. When a model is removed, you get a reanimation token (baring a few, specific exceptions). Doesn't matter if the model is shot down, chopped in half, eaten by tyranids, or falls in a hole in the ground. Don't confuse game description for mechanics, they're two different things.

    As a note, and we've discussed this at length on this board, but it's by no means definitive (read: you can still argue it either way if you want): Phil Kelley writes "removed from play" in his books, Mat Ward writes "removed as a casualty" in his books. They both mean the same thing.

    So, when a model is hit by jaws and is "removed from play", and RP says it only gives tokens to models that were "removed as a casualty", don't get confused. That's simply two writers working in isolation from each other, not one writer defining two different states.

  7. #6
    Son of LO andrewbeater's Avatar
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    One other thing I found out about the Jaws; no two Space Wolves HQ can have the same Saga, Wargear or Psychic powers. So if a Space Wolves player takes Njal for instance who has all of the psyker powers, he cannot take any Rune Priest because that Rune Priest would have some of the same psyker powers as Njal. Ergo, you cannot ever have two HQ's running the Jaws of the World Wolf. It's a Wolf pride thing.
    Really, I knew the answers to my questions, but it is my experience that some other people have a piece of information that you do not know and I was looking for a way around it. I jipped myself of the Reanimation Protocols though and that was what I was missing in all this.

  8. #7
    Senior Member SheBeast76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewbeater View Post
    One other thing I found out about the Jaws; no two Space Wolves HQ can have the same Saga, Wargear or Psychic powers. So if a Space Wolves player takes Njal for instance who has all of the psyker powers, he cannot take any Rune Priest because that Rune Priest would have some of the same psyker powers as Njal. Ergo, you cannot ever have two HQ's running the Jaws of the World Wolf. It's a Wolf pride thing.
    Really, I knew the answers to my questions, but it is my experience that some other people have a piece of information that you do not know and I was looking for a way around it. I jipped myself of the Reanimation Protocols though and that was what I was missing in all this.

    Actually, you can .

    Two RPs can have JotWW, as long as their second powers are different, and they have different wargear .

    As good as Njal is, I rather have two RPs .

  9. #8
    Double Clutching Weasel Klajorne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewbeater View Post
    One other thing I found out about the Jaws; no two Space Wolves HQ can have the same Saga, Wargear or Psychic powers. So if a Space Wolves player takes Njal for instance who has all of the psyker powers, he cannot take any Rune Priest because that Rune Priest would have some of the same psyker powers as Njal. Ergo, you cannot ever have two HQ's running the Jaws of the World Wolf. It's a Wolf pride thing.
    Really, I knew the answers to my questions, but it is my experience that some other people have a piece of information that you do not know and I was looking for a way around it. I jipped myself of the Reanimation Protocols though and that was what I was missing in all this.
    Yeah, as mentioned above, characters can't be duplicates. But you can do something as simple as just giving one guy meltabombs and they're different enough that it's within the rules.

  10. #9
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    yeah, as long as they have a differnt second power then they are allowed. Also, I think that it was FAQ'd that because Njal has all the powers, then it is different to all the other RPs, who only have two.

  11. #10
    Son of LO andrewbeater's Avatar
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    After I posted, I found out that this was covered in the Space Wolves FAQ. Oh well, next time I'll play a Slaanesh Daemon army that will fix him.

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