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... because by my guestimation, they shouldn't. I really like the fluff of dark eldar, and hate playing mechanized (Used to play shooty green tide until tanks got that 5th ed boost and everyone started going all mech, and my measly rokkits couldn't deal with the mech spam anymore,) and so WWP seemed the only way to go from what I've been reading of the meta, but... the math just doesn't seem to work out in my mind. People keep talking as though units can reach half-way across the board from a WWP, but as far as I can tell, there is no special rule that lets you move after entering the battlefield from a WWP. It seems just like entering from the board edge: i.e. you can't move after. The highest assault range available without moving is 12+d6, and that's only one unit (beastmasters) and that's not nearly as big of a threat bubble as people seem to be making it out to be, even if you manage to plant your WWP in the middle of the field.
I must conclude that I am missing something, and would LOVE to be filled in as to what exactly that is before I start sinking RL money into models. Thank you, and I look forward to your insight.
EDIT Furthermore, once the missing piece is explained to me, would any of you be so kind as to explain to me the basic tactical workings of a WWP army, as I've never seen one in action in person, and have a hard time following text-only battle reports. Do you drop the WWP turn 1 or wait a turn?, what unit do you generally use to do so? How much of your army do you start with on the board for saftey's sake? Do you drop thw WWP generally towards the center, or are there generally more complex considerations when deciding where to place. The concept of the army fascinates me and I'd really like to try it, but well.. I'm poor and don't have allot of money to spend on "it's a trap" units. Normally it's worth it for an awesome models, but nearly every DE model is beautiful so it's moot. Thank you again in advance
Last edited by mjorkk; May 9th, 2012 at 14:10. Reason: Forgot to add a request
Good question. First, it seems like your math on the threat ranges is a bit off. When your units arrive they get their full movement distance from the edge of the portal plus running and assault. So beasts get to move 6", run D6", then assaut 12" for a threat range of 19-24" out of the portal (terrain can obviously slow them however). Likewise hellions get to move 12" out of the portal, run D6" then assualt 6".
As for battle reports, there's a couple of blogs made by people using different variants of WWP lists, here's 2 of the better ones I've seen:
Let it all Burn
Generally speaking, most of your army will be in reserve. This make WWP lists somewhat unreliable, but also makes them a lot of fun to play. Since you don't know which units will come in when you've got to be on your toes and always be thinking of how to get the mission accomplished, and no 2 games will ever be the same.
The unit deploying the WWP will either be a Haemie or an Archon (obviously since they're the only ones that can take a WWP) accompanied by something that won't die after 1 turn of getting shot. My latest 2000 point WWP list I've been using looks like this:
2 Haemies w/WWP, VB, LG
10 Harlies w/Kisses, 2FPs, Shadowseer
4 Trueborn w/Blasters
4 Trueborn w/Blasters
20 Hellions, Helliarch w/Stunclaw
10 Wyches w/Haywires, Hekatrix w/Agonizer
10 Wracks w/2 LGs, Acothyst
10 Wracks w/2 LGs, Acothyst
5 Warriors w/Blaster
5 Warriors w/Blaster
6 Reavers w/2 HLs, Champ w/VB
6 Reavers w/2 HLs, Champ w/VB
My usual WWP unit is 10 Wracks with the 2 Haemies and Baron, but if the army I'm up against is ABSURDLY shooty then I'll use the Harlies instead since they can't be shot at unless you're within 24". One portal will always be dropped Turn 1. Depending on the Army and where they're set up, sometimes I'll drop both Turn 1 and sometimes I'll wait a turn to get the second one into a better position.
Hope that helps get you started.
The meat things seek to destroy ourselves. They hunt us as we hunt them but they are weak and uncertain. Bring them understanding of the power of ourselves through our strength and their fear. The inferior flesh will be entirely destroyed, all fragments will be smashed. Ourselves will fight to the last, all weak flesh must be consumed
I can't give you much, but what I know is this:
-You want to drop those WWP's on turn 1. Simply because you start rolling for reserves at the start of turn 2.
-If you're playing a low point cost game (say, 1250 and down) you can do with one portal, but higher and you will want two. What this means is that your enemy has a potential three deployment zones to consider regarding your reserves: the original deployment zone, and two portals.
-Portals can be blocked by the enemy. They can surround it, if they have enough models, and prevent you from using it. This means that you don't want to place a portal too close: take this in consideration.
-Portal delivery: a WWP army list starts with how you want to get the portals where you want them to. A transport with a character who can carry such items is the obvious choice and can work really well. A Heamonculus accompanied by Wracks ensures you can drop it relatively close to the enemy and survive retaliation. Or you can take a Heamy with just the portal and hitch a ride in a cheap transport.
-Units: effective units coming from a portal (from own experience): Wyches, Wracks and Reaver jetbikes. Units good for supporting such an army: Trueborn with splinter cannons in a Venom with splinter cannons, Ravagers.
Hope this helps a bit.
Innovation suffuses this hobby like a tea bag in the boiling water of play.
I also think you need a bit of the "whole" picture - you know, theory, mechanics and expectations. I do not care what people say, WWP is an advanced method to use right and often times it is used by the new player simply because they do not have enough raiders in their collection. Straight up, it will not be considered competitive and is considered unreliable for tournament play. Some of us, like the those in the links Bugs has offered that manage the game and orchestrate the battle to their advantage, looks easy but it isn't. The flip side is it is hella cool in friendly games and can throw even an experienced opponent off their game and when you do win, you have done it with style and finesse that make the last 5 games you were tabled worth it.
So there is a learning curve as most inexperienced players find out and then quit never giving it a chance. I am hoping this doesn't discourage you as I think this will test your patience with the army - the army itself is designed torture it's owner, I am painfully sure of that now. That is the expectation you got to have in the back of your mind, win or lose you are having fun with a totally cool style of play.
Theory and mechanics has been touched upon by Bugs and Kantoken. Theory being that you get your 2 portals in an advanced location and the stuff inside can engage the enemy as soon as they emerge (engage being either getting to shoot at or getting to charge first) straight out of the portal. I can not think of many units that would use the portal and not do that other than a squad of wracks trying to reach an objective but you probably could have just started them on the board or have used the board edge and still make it to the objective. So the portal is really a mechanism to get close to shoot, close to assault or both, to shoot and then assault. From there, you need to decide how you are going to accomplish that with the units you think you want to play with. Some units need a ton of care to use and are harder to use than others. For example, mandrakes - cool unit, got some awesome deployment options but they have to be careful in who they engage. Beasts on the other hand, can charge a wider range of targets, have a large threat range and are not terribly expensive for what they do.
The other part of the theory, and I think is an art, is managing the wwp deployers (the IC with the wwp and the unit they are starting with) and not only getting them to where you need the portal to be (and even that is a guess) but trying to do that whether you go first or second in a turn, Dawn of War, losing the initiative, or just basically playing on a barren table where you are facing the opponents entire army and you are in range of all their guns. Some design their wwp deploying units to be inexpensive as possible and others like to make them tough as nails. I like to use wracks on a raider when I use haemys as wwp deployers with their toughness and tokens making them fairly durable. Bugs mentions Harlies which I have found work wonderfully if you are paying attention to how far away the enemy is (thank you veil of tears!) and in one of those links someone used 10 Grotesques as their wwp escort. I have seen people use incubi, wyches and small 3 or 4 man wrack squads but I think none of those are being utilized correctly. The only thing you need to worry about is getting the portal down where you need it and relying on the units in reserve to do their thing when their time comes.
The other half of the theory is what is in reserve and how bits and pieces of your army is going to deal with facing the entirety of your opponents army. Kinda like what a chaos daemons player would face so you got to be savvy with this kind of situation - it aint for everyone.
As for your general questions, which has been touched on by the others, the wwp is a board edge so yes, you can enter the game by moving, you can run, and for those with the fleet you can assault right out of the portal. Just about all the Fast Attack options are fantastic when used with a portal. Most people take 2 portals and the wwp carrier is usually in a transport. I do not recommend going to far from the mid-line as I have found some armies are looking to charge you if you go too far - so you will have to balance that with the range of the units in the portal (shooting units do not necessarily need an aggressive portal location where other units like the talos and some foot squads need an aggressive location for their portal). Of course, this all depends on your list building and how you envision the order of battle going down (you playstyle).
Hope this gives you some insight, there is a ton more to talk about but you need to read those battle reports to piece everything together.
"On a hunch, I melted them down and inhaled the fumes and read the dark eldar codex again, AND FOUND A BUNCH OF NEW RULES HIDDEN BEHIND THE OTHER WORDS..." [Gardeth on modelling & interpreting the DE Codex]
Really? Hmm, that's disappointing. I mean still awesome models, and still fun playstyle, but I was hoping that there was one bastion left of competitive non-mechanized armies. Like I said, I used to play un-trukk'd orks, and continued to do so out of spite as non-mechanized became less and less viable, because TBH, I just don't like tanks. I don't like putting my units in transports, and I don't like the playstyle of mechanized... it just isn't fun. Are there any lists among the plethora of books that don't rely on transports to remain relevant in the modern play environment? (It does look to me like WWP CAN be genuinely competitive when used right, but KwiKwag's comments have me wondering.)
To be fair, if you go all out with the WWP stratagem (Not my personal way of doing it, as I feel I need other threats on the board to distract away from the carriers and still function as a mobile list) you have 1 unit on the board at the start, whilst it can be in a transport (Wracks) it doesn't have to be (Harlequins/Wracks), it is possible to run a completely foot-based WWP army. You will be relying on your portal placement, for instance placing one portal first turn then placing the other in a more advanced position on your second turn. You take Beasts, Reavers and Jump Infantry to be fast, and can take warriors in large numbers as a potent short ranged shooting threat. Don't be put off though, having one raider will of course make placing the portals easier but as I said before, you can get away with having 1 18" on and another 24" on, if you stretch your carrier unit out you can make them reasonably far apart as well.
As for lists without transports that remain relevant, you've gotta be imaginitive. There are some Necron lists that work great without transports, but adding a couple of Command Barges makes them super great. A lot of armies can work very well without transports, playing a gunline style (or be Tau, have 1 or 2 transports that you just use to block people and get in their way) or doing 100% jump infantry Blood Angels, but having no tanks as well as no transports is a truly crippling idea for most lists in 5th edition 40k. You'll find a nice idea at some point, I just don't have all the codices to alok at right now =/
Pursued Guard Regiment Fluff WIP - http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...ial-fluff.html
Revenant Moon Necrons: (W/L/D) 0/1/0 (6th edition: 13/2/2)(5th edition: 14/6/4)(3rd edition Codex: 16/4/7)
XIX Legion: (W/L/D) 0/0/0 (5th edition: 14/12/2)(5th edition Codex: 4/3/0)
Black Legion: (W/L/D) 1/0/0 (6th edition: 2/3/0)
Something Wicked... Reikwald Beastmen: (W/L/D) 10/4/1
but nothng non-MEQ, so meh. I supose I coud always switch to fantasy or hordes. Good thing I haven't invested any money
P.S. I know this isn't the place to ask this, but how in the world is strike force spam supposed to work, in the modern play environment where everyone is mechanized, the strike force, which has all Anti-Infantry weapons, wouldn't really be able to deal with most competitive armies..... other than other strike force spam of course (well that and DE/ORK mech, because our transports are made out of nothing tissue paper and RL money XD.)
(TBH part of why I got excited about Dark Footdar was because I read the fake 6th rules, in which they would have been fantastic [read the fleet rules in the fake 6th rules if you don't know what i'm talking about])
Last edited by mjorkk; May 13th, 2012 at 17:03. Reason: Accidentally said MSU instead of MEQ, weird typo
Otherwise: it is to expect that only MEQ or better are able to walk towards the enemy and get away with it. It gives some realism to the game.
Furthermore I don't really think that the leaked 6th rules will make the use of tanks less frequent: in my reading tanks became more reliable, unless they remain stationary. Sure the new rules for fleet are a lot better but you now have to around cover, which makes mobile cover (= transports) even more interesting.
Why not attach the Heamys into mandrakes squads in order to infiltrate and deploy the WWP near the enemy?