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Alright, I would like to know whether or not the Eldar players here think that Dire Avengers or Guardian Defender Squads are better than the other.
Your input would greatly be appreciated
" Some call the Eldar decadent. If that is true the Imperial Army could do with that kind of decadence."
Last Words of Colonel Brin, executed heretic 463.M38
dire avengers have fire power (unless u play euthwe then ill go with gardians) but there expensive for troop while as the gardians have there mass in favor instead of skill.
I dont know a single eldar player who actually uses Dire avengers over guardians. Not sure this poll is needed as guardians are a ton better its not even something that's a matter of personal choice
Weapon platforms + Conceal + cheaper price = better
not to mention the dire avenger exarch is pretty useless
man if ur not playing ulthwe at least one unit of dire avengers is quite a good choice. Ok so they dont get a wep platform or a warlock but SO? u ppl seem to think that having 1/3 of your guys surviving the enemies shooting and that those 3 starcannon shots or 1 brightlance shot is awesome for 160pts. (10 guardians, warlcok w/ conceal and cc wep and shuri pistol) Personally i think that moving 9 inches a turn (average fleet of foot per turn), having a 4+ save, ld 9, ws 4 and bs 4 is better. But all of those stats are just really half the reason while these guys are a really viable choice. The other is their massed shurkin fire before they charge in w/ an exarch w/ power wepaon. 2 squads of them both w/ exarch w/ power weps will cost you around 140pts (i think). think 18 s4 shots. 12 will hit w/ 8 of them wounding most races. Then you charge in, exarch at the fore and hope to kill another 3 or so with his 4 attacks at ws5, power weapon, and Initiative 6.
This can all happen by the 3rd turn (w/ gud fleet of foot roles), while your guardian squads will still be sloggin (if u take wep platforms). So while your guardians might be taking 4 turns shooting bfore they can do some real damage w/ their shurikens (which wil be even less efective cos of bs 3) you Dire Avengers will take 2 turns, AND they'll get saves from the more common weapons such as bolters, gauss rifles, splinter rifles, basically any infantry wep w/ AP5. I do realise that sometimes its better to have the 5+ invunerable but the problem w/ that is it doesnt do nething once you get to hand to hand. Whereas your dire avengers are still getting 4+ and the exarch his power armor save.
If your rich enough to combine 3 of these squads w/ wave serpants its even better as you get your wep platform AND fast movement. AND you dont have to take a warlock.
For 275 pts (i think) you can have a squad that moves across the field for a disembark on turn 2. (star engines) or leave them their for a turn and then get the DA's out and charge them straight away.
Dire avengers can be just as good as your guardians, if not better when massed shuriken fire is essential.
I play ulthwe and along with my 2 maxed out 20 strong units of black guardians w/ warlock w/ conceal (no wep platform) i have a unit of 10 direavengers to give me even more shurken shots. This way i can fleet of foot over the board, getting their really fast and then unleash 100 shuriken shots before charging him w/ 50 troops which is another 100 attacks.
I just think that a wep plaform is a complete waste of time for normal guardians. they dont hit enuf and they remove your fleet of foot rule so they reduce you shuriken shots. if you miss it drop 2 wep platforms and some guardians and grab a wraith lord which will be more effective in the long run. especially for attracting all those missle launcher shots until you can get in range for 100 shuriken shots.
wow, howd i right so much on whether dire avengers are better than guardians. :blink:
Sure. Dire Avengers are great when you move them across the board, fire off 19 shuriken shots, and assault them with your exarch's power weapon. Her's the problem. That is a very slim situation. You only have a 4+ save, so typically you will be shot at by weapons ignoring your saves while any survivors become Bolter bait. By the time you hit you 12" range your punch is greatly softened. Then, what if you don't make it into assualt? They get to unload on you and then assault you, negating your charging attacks. The main point is, Life aint peachy like your post seems to lead to. You will get shot at and your Dire Avengers cannot handle much fire.
On the flip side, we have Guardian Defenders. You can take more of them for cheaper, meaning more casualties until leadership tests, and longer survivability. The fact that there are so many weapons which are ap4 means that the 5+ conceal save is a greater asset than the DA's save. The Star Cannon ensures that 1 or 2 enemies will die per turn, be they gretchin, or terminators. These guardians do what they are named for well, they defend. Their mass shurikens will help slow down any would-be assualters.
The true problem with Dire Avengers is that they need a transport to survive to drop their payload, and there are many units that can use that transport better.
<img src='http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/J2agnarok/J2agnarokRS.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
I am with Kirasu, I dont even think it merrits this much discusion personnaly, I have never physically encountered an eldar player who prefered Avngers to guardians
Everything you have been told is a lie!
With Iyanden, Guardians are Heavy Support and Dire Avengers are Elite.
Heavy slots are very precious to me as I have many Falcons and Dark Reapers so I don't have a single Guardian in my Eldar collection!
I gladly revert to Dire Avengers as their improved values and great HtH Exarch saved the day more than once!
"Rolling sixes with a Wraithcannon. Priceless."
- Craftworld Eldar Iyanden, 2000pts
- Space Marines Dark Angels, 2000pts
- Dark Eldar, 2000pts
- Chaos Death Guard, 2000pts
Guardian defenders are must for Ulthwe players, so keep it as that.
As for any other army, they are nice with their large numbers and
Now for Dire avengers, Biel-tan it can be quite nice, especially using the Eldar Fist Ssquad tactics as seen in ( E.O. )... got censored.. (okay another forum..which is a very nice forum specifically for eldar players.. ....) load them up in a waveserp. to get close for the shuriken firepower than hth!. If you use storm guardians.. they can have a somewhat same use.. load up in Waveserp. with 2 flamers + warlock destruct.
now as for which is better than the other? What army do you play? it all depends.
ulthwe strike force need not to use such dire aven.
Ulthwe would primary use guardians.
Any other army, guardians would have the heavy weapon role, meat wall, or mass shuriken vs Dire avengers, hth, better saves and better bs to ensure shuricat mass will hit, yet has half of what guardians' size. depends what you need them for, will their usefullness shine.
This has been done before. Not long ago, in fact, the last reply was just over a month ago... (N)
You cannot win, for to fight us is to give us power.