Welcome to Librarium Online!
Hail fellow Necron generals!
I would be very grateful for any comments and information how to defeat (or at least not get crushed by) Space Marines.
A friend of mine has Dark Angels with small contingent of DH (Grey Knight Terminators). Usually he deploys 2x Predator w/4 lascannons, assault squad w/jump packs and 2 characters attached (power weapons), 3 Grey Knight Teminators and spents rest of points on minimal squads w/lascannons or heavy plasma guns.
We play 1300-1500 points battles.
My army list include 2 lords w/ROrbs (one w/destroyer body, other w/VoD), 2x 10 warriors, 4 destroyers, monolith. In 1500 p battles I also have a small unit of immortals (5-6) and scarab swarm (10 bases).
Unfortunately I have a big problem with him. Just from first turn over 11 lascanons are shooting at my monolith (a big chance to smash it in first turn), GK and Assault Squad advance into my battle line to wreak havoc with power weapons. All I can do is to jump with my lord with squad from one place to another and make raids with destroyers.
Do you have any ideas what should I do?
u should play missions, like sabotage, or take and hold, then he has to concentrate on an oblective just as u do
because with so many heavy weapons, ur doomed
what u could do is give ur scarab swarms disruption fields and try to assault the predators with them, so that u get rid of them firts
u could also try to get ur monolith in hull-down, so they can only get glancing hits, then it only is destroyed on a 6, since a 4 for immobilized doesnt count it to be destroyed ( but i'm totally sure if it can be hull-down, i think it can because it hovers a little above the ground)
i also think u have a little to little warriors, i'm playing 1000pt battles and i have around 30 warriors, u also shouldnt give both ur lords a ressorection orb, thats a waste of points, one is enough
so try not to play a mission which means to destroy each other, because then u will lose, i think
CypherTheFallenOne: hmmm, playing missions is not a bad idea, to be honest, up to now I've played only meeting engagements. I use 2 ROrbs because they proved to be really great wargear (you should see my opponent face when 3/4 of killed models rise up ).
I also consider increasing number of warriors, I'am losing because of phase out on turn five.
Imo, you need more warriors. I would take at least 30 with 1500 points. That would give you a better chance of taking out the Predators, not to mention keeping you from phasing out too early.
I think Cypher is right about the scarabs. Use them either to take out a predator or harass one of the enemy units.
The monolith seems ineffective at lower point values. Maybe you xould replace it with more warriors or immortals?
well, I have 32 warriors, no less and no more and 6 immortals (I'am going to expand this unit to 10). And unfortunately , I'am not going to sink more money in miniatures. I have what I have and I must think about strategy involving these units in given numbers
I will hardly drop monolith, at least in turn one it takes all heavy weapon fire, leaving my destroyers and warriors in one piece
I have 5 immortals and 3 destroyers, and it seems like every time I play my space marine friend, he has enough long range killing power to take out my destroyers (in a round or two) and negate their WBB roll. Same goes for the immortals when I get close.
I think a key with the necrons is leveraging your wbb advantage, by making sure your elites/fast attack don't get phased out really quickly. I'm gonna switch to a 10 immortal squad instead of 5, since I think it would be better than having 5 immortals (easier to phase out) and 3 destroyers (also easier to phase out).
Wednesday nights at GW (Ontario Mills in Ontario, CA)
4-7-05 - SoB 1200, S&D Omega, Opponent was new.
4-7-05 - ME! Chris beats me again with his space wolves (he is a good palyer without his eldar).
well I would definitly stick with the 'lith, it is useful when you want to take out an entire squad of marines at once.
I would say use the scarabs to tie up the GK termies but they have those damn Nemesis weapons. the only thing that i have found effective against them is to let them get close to a juicy squad of warriors and then use a lord to teleport them a ways away. Then i use the 2 h.destroyers that i sometimes take to thin down their numbers.
Basically there isn't a whole lot that you can do since it seems that your "friend" has purposely geared his list towards beating the crap out of your necrons.
I personally dont like to play against marine players that min/max their army in order to beat mine just because i am playing those "cheesy" necrons. I mean seriously, just look at his list.
It is comprised completely of weapons that will take away your WBB and wipe out your 'lith first turn and closecombat squads that will get in your face very fast so that you cant even take the time to wipe out the tanks.
If he tries to point out that "this is the list he uses against everybody" (as i have been told by powergaming cheesemongers) then point out that against any horde army his army would be wiped out. Against any dedicated cc army he would be out-faught and against many ranged armies he would be out-gunned
Maybe you dont mind playing against his list since he is your friend, but if i were you i would tell him that he needs to change his list a little before you play him again
"I am the architect of fate!"
justinb67: I'll also switch to 10 Immortals (and that will be last change in my army), 20 S5 shots should be enough to sweep out a 5 man SM squad.
TheBigJake: The problem is that in Poland, people usually pick their armies against particular opponent. So I'am not surprised his army consists of minimal squads w/lascannons. They're simply much more effective. I remember our first battles, I had the same army (well I always have the same army, not having so much possibilities in army list ) he deployed a mix of heavy weapons (only 2 lascannons), dreadnought, rhino etc,etc. And he lost. Four or five times. Than he changed to "lascannons army list"... and now that's me who loses every time
I would drop the second necron lord on the destroyer body. Also, you need some more variation to beat a SM army. With the new SM codex you can expect to see up to SIX devestator squads or Six Assault squads. Put simply, the plain jane Space Marines are now easily the best army in 40k.
The VOD is NOT good to use against SM troops, except on small squads, or scout squads. Even with a 10 man Immortal squad (20 shots) will only manage to kill a few marines; against terminators, forget it. The VOD is good against SM armor/dreadnaughts. Another trick is to now use Twenty necron warriors (40 shots, if you get close enough)
I would suggest also dropping the ressurection orb, as it is relatively useless with it's 6 inch range.
I highly suggest getting Destroyers and Scarabs. Scarabs now can boost 24 inches and can force a SM unit to make a choice: shoot at the scarabs on their doorstep, or get stuck in HTH next turn. Destroyers are all around great units that can zoom across the board and get a 3+ Inv. save and have the best range in the necron army. (Y)
As far as monoliths go, always deep strike the monolith, always. Nothing better to plop down a monolith right next to your enemy knowing that no matter where it lands (besides going off table) you are safe and if you land in the right spot you can shoot every unit within 12 inches with the g. flayers. or shoot the particle whip or teleport 20 warriors w/40 shots AND shoot the g. flayers.
Put simply, you are going to have to expand your army and tactics to beat even a standard SM army now; marching 30 warriors 6 inches at a time, just ain't going to cut it anymore. :hmm:
I have several suggestions, some which incorporate what other people have said.
If you purely want to show him a thing or two and prove to yourself that you can do it (I always do) Then first off I would advise like Cypher said, get out some missions, even simple ones. But stay away from cleanse. Anything that has you deploying on either long or short table edge will work towards you. Also get some different terrain, even if it is just a stack of books, things that can block LOS to the monolith so that you can pop it behind that. I don't think deepstriking would be wise, since he has so many guns as soon as he can see it he will dedicate all the fire towards it, and the purpose of deepstriking will be to get close to his heart, you cannot afford to do that with such a high risk of losing it. Also depending on which mission you do, by the time the monolith comes into play, half your warriors will be decimated or the battle will be near completion and the monolith won't be able to turn the tides. I would also hide the destroyers where the monolith is. Scarabs I would keep in their size, add d.fields if they aren't on already, and go tankhunting those preds. Destroyers can find some sort of vantage area where they can be seen as minimally as possible but shoot other stuff.
Try to deploy your warriors so that the heavy weps. dont have a LOS to them, even maybe deploying your whole army on one side, so that something can either not see them or that he has to make a lengthy treck to get close. Personally I would use mono as a support unit, tping warriors out of assault range, shooting the enemy unit up next turn, then maybe using the veil with the warriors to keep moving around, shooting next turn. This way you can bust out the p.whip on the enemy unit that turn. Keep him guessing. Also if you don't have a squad of wraiths, I would consider taking out that second lord with the d.body alltogether.
Alternatively you could add in a Tomb Spider or two, I know you don't really want to buy models, but online you can get them fairly inexpensive...well as inexpensive as you can expect from GW. Let them hang close to your warriors, but out of LOS from heavy weps. When enemies get into assault or close to your warriors, rush them in. Use your d.body lord here also. This forces your opponent to make a choice, either he can devote an entire UNIT to fighting that monstrous creature, or he can subjugate himself to be without an armor save against the str.6 attacks. Either way its a lose/lose situation for him. Let your monolith shoot up stuff that tries to get close, then "fly" it out(an amazing 6" at a time) and shoot up those remaining heavy squads, chances are it wont be banged up too badly, even so hopefully some remnants of your destroyers remain, and you can thin the enemy units a bit.
Well that's my two cents, hope it helped, and hope it wasn't too long >_>
"And a spyder in your warrior ranks is gonna be like groping a girl and finding balls for your opponent."- The Mad Hatter