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I was in a GW shop the other day, not going to say which one cause I don't want to annoy the guy involved if he reads this. One of the staff was talkign to us about the new SM codex and about psychic powers in particular, the one where he can reroll to hit and to wound and armour saves etc. and the one where he can up his initiative.
Now at this point we agreed that that was cool, then he started ona bou thow it was unbeatable in combat etc. etc. Naturally I pointed out that as those powers can only be used in his turn and one of them only lasts for his turn they wouldn't make that much difference against an Archite.
He asked me how I figured that so I explained that the Archite would be charging the librarian (thats the SM psyker right?) and not the other way round to which he responded "What you plan isn't always what happens" and then he prattled on about this rerollable save, now to me rerolling nothing is still nothing so I didn't really think it was relevant.... agonisers ignore armour saves.
Now aside from the fact that the archite is most likely to get the charge (drugs, raider, fleet of foot = greater manouverability you know what I mean) I decided to discuss what would happen if the marine did, my conclusion being he would be summarily owned by an archite striking before him. The guy (GW staff member remember) then again pointed to the I8 from his psychic power to which I pointed out the ASF combat drug (Effective I10). To which he not only cried 'cheese' but then again prattled on about rerolling his armour save! Again I decided to assume the librarian survived the initial barrage of attacks.
Now he decides to bring up the fact that he ignores armour saves... WHAT? admittedly his rerolling of hits and wounds is good and it means he has a reasonable chance of getting a wound in and disabling the SF, but only 1 wound and then he would definetly be slaughtered in the next round of comabt.... I didn't understand.
So now onto my actual questions for the rest of you:
1) Why is GW employing this guy?
2) Is their a flaw in my thinking?
3) Have any of you had similar experiences, this bloke had clearly never played with or against Dark Eldar and made so many assumptions.
4) After describing the psychic powers of this SM character how could he possibly claim that the ASF drug is cheesy?
Now I'm aware that htis is mostly just whining but its good to ahve a moan with people who can sympathise occassionally and I'm sure you've all got stories of how our poor little overlooked Dark Eldar are misunderstood, underestimated, misrepresented (he also told a new player who was looking at our glorious army that no one played DE because they never win anything) and belittled so lets hear them, get it off your chest.
Especially if its by GW employees, I'm sure they employ gophers....
I think that you we should just accept that most marine players are *expletive deleted*, and that GW pretty much made marines nearly unbeatable with their new codex. Yes, an archite would own a librarian, but the ensuing drop pod assault that has a squad with two flamers in it would return own our dark eldar, or the ig that you have in your closet, or craftworld eldar, or tyranids or whatever else (except maybe the necrons).
As for the comment that DE never win anything, I'd redirect to that to ask him who won the Grand Tournament in Atlanta in Oct. Then I'd tell him to get that space marine *expletive deleted* out of his mouth.
I can't begin to count the number of times an opponent has told me I was fixing to get hammered since "he never looses to DE". Of course the look on his face when I do win is priceless. Part I can't figure out though is where all these DE that they beat are. There are only two of us in the shop I paly in and the other guy rarely if ever brings his.
i have to say some GW employess are awful for using the im staff so im god rule of theirs, it makes them look like complete idiots, i have corrected Gw staff when they ahve made a mistake and they usually take it in good grace. Some however seem to twist it to their advantage, i played one member of staff at one time and the guy actually CHEATED to beat me and then claimed he knew it cos he was staff
WELL SAID, NO MORE SQUATS THEY ARE DEAD GET OVER ITOriginally Posted by artificer
when i was sitting down at the painting table and one of the GW staff was showing a new some guy and his parents the starter box set, he described the two races in there (dark eldar and marines) as
"marines *pointed to the marines*, thick amour, very powerful, great weaponry, all round good solid soldiers of war etc. etc."
then he moved on to the dark eldar and said...
" the dark eldar *pointed to them on the box* kind of frail, weak armour, not very good guns, you get the picture"
it was clear that he was trying to persuade this noob to start collecting marines, which is complete crap IMO, they always put dark eldar down and never say anything great about them like they do for describing marines, which in my case is appoling :/
as that staff member collects a few chapters of marines and all fall to the feet of me and a friends dark eldar armies in every game we play against him...
Well, it's not really bad that the guy tried to pass the marines to the new guy. Marines are easy to play thus giving a newbie more chance to score some victories or at least play some good games, raising their interest in the game and increasing the chances of starting another army in the future. If they started with DE, they would probably get slaughtered until they told themselves "this game is really stupid" and gave up.
As for marines being unbeatable, well, the same rules for defeating them still apply. The new codex just made them more competitive, because, let's face it, their army had started to be really weak. I mean, if I can defeat marine armies, played by veteran players, using my sisters and end up the game with around 5 casualties, you know there is something wrong with that army.
The DE archon would destroy any librarian btw. I don't know if I am really lucky or not but none of the staff in my local GW (Kensington) are argumentative or twats in general. They are all helpful and friendly. OK, sometimes they don't know all the rules by heart, but we're all human in the end of the day.
Because it's hard to get good staff these days...Originally posted by karantalsis@Nov 29 2004, 14:41
1) Why is GW employing this guy?Nope.2) Is their a flaw in my thinking?Rarely. I have heard some nonsense spouted.3) Have any of you had similar experiences, this bloke had clearly never played with or against Dark Eldar and made so many assumptions.Because he's not only ignorant but obviously also too petty to concede the point. A twat, in other words.4) After describing the psychic powers of this SM character how could he possibly claim that the ASF drug is cheesy?This is the worst one. Bad because it's patently untrue - I remember Jervis Johnson saying about how GW collect statistics on how well each army does (mostly garnered from tournaments I believe) and the stats show that even the WORST armies have a win percentage of about 40%. Dark Eldar were said to have been poorly played when first released but to 'now' ('now' being 2002 at the time) be pushing at a 50% win percentage. After seeing their showing in the EOT where they were the army that had the 4th highest number of total wins recorded, I'd bet it's slightly higher at this moment in time. (Yes, I know Disorder lost in the Webway but the DE were up against practically every Eldar player taking part, and it's fairly obvious as to who outnumbered who. Even though every Eldar victory vs a Disorder army was being slapped into Webway sectors, the DE still only suffered a minor loss there as shown on the Commorragh <-> Ulthwe victory status bar.)(he also told a new player who was looking at our glorious army that no one played DE because they never win anything)
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<a href='http://mu.ranter.net/starcraft/bnet.html' target='_blank'>-The l33t d00d, Optimus Simula</a>
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<a href='http://members.aol.com/intwg/flamewars.htm#IPYW' target='_blank'>-The Flamer, Inflammator</a>
As far as ive read its just a ignoant fool almost no other unit in the game (Non special character) can come close to our supreme lords. We can chop down HT with ease those Librarian veil of time is kinda to powerfull atm. Its a unfair advantage atm that the SM got there new codex untis are reduced in point (termies assaults attack bikes extra wound ***** etc librarian tottaly beefed up)
But still my lord manages to finish there librarian chaplain and 3 squads on his own in 1 game I have never see another HQ from anotehr army do that.
And its true most ppl say DE sucks. Before I went collecting DE they said DE sucks I wanted to prove they were wrong about that there is no such thing as a bad army in 40k the army is as good as his owner. I played 55 batlles by now and won 50 a whole archievment for a noob that just started playing like 5 months ago dont you think? De are difficult to play with DE are a very fragile race DE are not the best ground holders of 40k but there not weak ive seen my oppononents almost whining because in a 1500 pts game the only thing they did was shooting a wych and a raider. (Ive even had batlles against orks 1200 points I didnt even los a single unit 0 victory points for him 1200 for me thats a big ROFLLOLMAO)
De are one of the best races instead if you ask me. The lord is a real powerhouse compared to other Hq's for the amount of points. (Hey wo doesnt want a 2+ inv.) The troops are way better then any otehr troop only costing 8 pts having a WS BS of 4 and I5 compare that to a normal eldar guardian there wpn shoots twice as far and they can put 2 anti tank wpns in there squad instead of 1 bright lance!. If I were you I would do liek I always do when some1 talks about DE challange him to a batlle and agree that our 2 HQ will come into CC unharmed if he thinks his librarian will own our supreme lord.
Death to all wo oppose us! muhahaha
However with that statement out of the way, I would say listen to ArchonBjorn. He has a really good tendency to not say stupid things and give bad advice.Learn from yesterday.
Live for today
Hope for tomorrow
A normal archon could beat the librarian.. *hugs shadow feild*
Even though the archon might not kill the Librarian on the first turn, then the Lib are going down the next turn.
Pfft, Looney people, they think they are always right
Then again, that unlucky roll of ONE on the Shadowfeild is alway funny.
Some GW staffs here also had the same discussion... then I walked up and said allmost exactly the same thing. "Well the Archon with shadowfeild, CCdrugs and agoniser and pistol can kill him of easly"
They aswell brought up the I8 thing, I told them about the Always strike first drug.
The difference is that they agreed that an Archon/Archite could win over the Librarian