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I don't really play Eldar, but I am curious what you Eldar players would think of an army composed entirely of Jetbikes. Basically, I like Vypers a lot, especially when you can make them nearly invincible by giving them crystal targeting matrices, soul stones, and holo fields. How do you think an army that looked something like this would perform?
Wild Rider Chief (power weapon, cc weapon)
-8x Wild Rider kinsmen w/ 2 Shuriken Cannons
3x Vyper w/ Bright Lance, Crystal Targeting Matrix, Soul Stone, Holo Field
6x Vyper w/ Star Cannon, Crystal Targeting Matrix, Soul Stone, Holo Field
That's it, 17 models, but damn would it look cool on the table. It also has a decent number of superbly fast scoring units for claiming those victory conditions, and those vypers really are going to be tough to kill.
How do you think it would perform?
One word. Horrible. :blink:
The list is illegal since you have no 'troop' choices. The squadron of three Brightlance-armed Vypers will cost 400ish points with the armament you have posted. That is for three shots. Worth it? Naw.
I know loads of ways of wiping this list with no problem. You have 18 really fragile models that are very expencive. Suppose you'll meet an all infantry IG-force stacked up with heavy bolters and autocannons? Your Vypers will drop from the skies like flies. (Nice rhime there, eh?)
..or a Tau army with the basic S5 gun?
As for the army in a tournament.. Heh. You'll get loads of negative score for a repetitive and, in my view, pretty booring list. :ph34r:
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You cant blaim him hes a tau player its the shame as we would setup a tau list altough I would just use something like.
4 times 12 firewarriors
3 times 2 broadsuits
Just as simple altough it might work I prefer keeping that kind of lists simple. The troops give 48 shots at a range of 30 w/S5 and the broads disable all vehichles and instant kill oblirators etc.
However with that statement out of the way, I would say listen to ArchonBjorn. He has a really good tendency to not say stupid things and give bad advice.Learn from yesterday.
Live for today
Hope for tomorrow
So was that an attempt to say that it is not a good army, Archon?
Basically there's nothing seriously wrong with the Tau army you presented there, and it probably could win some number of games. Your biggest flaw is that your army is far too static, something that can clearly not be said about an army of jetbikes (which kind of belies your analogy).
I understand that the jetbike army, like your hypothetical Tau army, could probably be done better by someone who actually knew the nuances of the faction, but I'm more curious to know whether the vyper army could be competative at all, how, or why not.
One word. Awesome.
I take it you weren't looking for advice from someone who has evidently never heard of Saim-Hann? The list is perfectly legal and perfectly fluffy, but does need some work on the Vypers.
I play Saim-Hann - but only 400 points Combat Patrol so far, which contains 6 vypers and only 2 upgrades (2 Spirit Stones). It works very well, with a 66% win record, except against Tau. Don't play Tau with a Vyper-only force. :ph34r:
With Vypers, if you're going for lots of them, the points stack up really fast. Never give them holofields, since the only damage result that won't kill you is a 3. Everything else will effectively result in the destruction of your Vyper (remember that you will be moving them over 6" turn and they are open-topped). CTMs can work very well, but are hideously expensive - ony get them if you have lots of spare points to throw around. Spirit Stones are probably the only upgrade that is remotely useful and cheap enough to include, possibly on all your Vypers.
Because your Vypers are only BS3 half of your shots will miss, and it feels like more than half miss when your Vyper can only shoot once per turn. :hmm: Stock up on the starcannons and scatter lasers (great for taking out light infantry, and wounds most things on a 2+ anyway), and only take a few brightlances if you really need them. I would recommend EMLs instead: more versatility, same strength and the plasma missile that causes pinning can be very effective. If you took out all the upgrades, and replaced them with more vypers with scatter lasers, then it could perform well.
One tip for playing with lots of Vypers: try not to get closer than 24" to the enemy, and never come within 12" of any opponent.
Oh, and give the Chief a shuriken cannon, and a Family Banner, and cut the Kinsmen down to 6.
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Okay Ive played Saim hann for a a few months now and I feel I have a good Idea go some of the things that can be done with them. Some side notes first though on the list. People will yell cheese at an all vyper army. the speed and offensive capabilities you bring to the table will make many players cry. Many vetren Saim-Hann players try to keep the ammount of normal jetbikes equal to the ammount of vyper jetbikes. this is a severe handicap as all the jetbike models for eldar suck and are way overpriced. Second it really isnt a very good Idea to have so many upgrades on such a weak vehicle. the spirit stones and Holofield arent worth it on a AV 10 open topped vehicle.
I usually prefer to keep the CTM as it allows me to stay out of enemy fire behind terrain. there is a problem with the CTM though. many places do not have enough terrain for all those vyper squads. what to do? bring your own. the new skimmer rules not blocking LOS have unfortunatly weakened this tactic but it can still work as downed vehicles still block LOS. a squad of two vypers facing nose to nose make a great wall for the vypers behind them. the ones you plan of sacrificing shouldnt have any upgrades on them at all. I usually use the bright lance vypers for this case as once all the vehicles are down there not all that usefull. You might want to consider star engines as they may allow you to move to a much better fireing position but Im still undecided on those.
Other armies to watch out for that will hurt are any with a lot of ordinance weapons like IG and IW. the pie plate just has to touch the veicle to count as hitting gets 2 hits as there open topped and rolls two dice and takes the highest for armor pen and then damage on the ordinance table. with a S8 ord weapon thats like a whole squad of vypers eating the dust pretty quickly.
Thanks for the input. I'll keep in mind your advice about spirit stones and holofields--I would have thought that the ultimately powerful combination of these two could keep even something like a vyper alive, but I was probably wrong in that assumption. I do want to keep the CTM, those just rock, but I'll probably see about dropping those bits of wargear, putting in some normal jetbikes (maybe another Wildrider Chief and kinsmen?) so that people don't get mad at the percentage of vypers.
In fact, it's possible to bring:
2x Wildrider Chief w/ 5 Kinsmen (each), Power Weapon, Shuriken Cannon, (give one a Family Banner, and one an extra shuriken cannon)
3x Vyper Squadron (2 vypers) w/ CTM and star cannons
3x Vypers w/ Bright Lances and CTM