Unphasable Necrons - Warhammer 40K Fantasy

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  1. #1
    LO Zealot Chaosbrynn's Avatar
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    71 (x4)

    Ok so I got my Necron codex 3 days ago or so and as I am a powergamer I immediatelly went through to find all the juicy things.

    As I was going through I noticed something. The reserves special rule of the necron warriors does not REQUIRE a monolith to be put in reserves. Only to bring them into play.

    Now this has got to be rules lawering, as I highlly doubt GW intended this. I bring it to you for your opinions and so you may be prepared as somewhere, some judge will undoutablly let it slide.

    Take this army:

    HQ
    Nightbringer

    Elites
    10 Pariahs – 380

    Troops - 360
    10x Warrior Squad – 180
    10x Warrior Squad – 180

    Phased Reserves:
    10x Warriors - 180

    Fast - 240
    6x Scarab Swarm – 72
    5x Scarab Swarm – 60
    5x Scarab Swarm - 60

    Total Models In Play: 47
    Total Units In Play: 7
    Phase Out Number: 7
    Total Points: 1496

    2 things you will notice about this list. A LOT of points spent on non-necrons and "phased reserves".

    The phased reserves start the game as reserves. Without a monolith to bring them into play they remain there. As they only count as being destroyed when the game is OVER you can not kill my phase out limit as they are not in play.

    What this means is that insetad of needing to kill 75% of my NECRONS you must instead kill the entire army minus 25% necrons kept in reserve. IE: You have to kill the nightbringer and the pariahs to win. ^_^

    I checked the codex and there is nothing that contradicts this in the phase out rules, the monolith rules or the reserves rules.

    Needless to say I would never play this. Simply for the look I would get when I explained it. However, someone out there will innevitablly try and pull this and I wanted you all to know.

    Secondlly I am sure some people will find it more then fair that a necron army simply play without its phase out limit in models instead of being forced down to it. Even though this is most ikelly not what the rules were intended to allow you to do.

    What do you guys think about:

    A) How well an army done like this would work.
    Is this legall, semi-legal, or sheer rules lawering.
    C) How "fair" would playing this way be to the oponent.

    Cheers!
    Chaosbrynn

    Mentor of Space Marine Commanders far and wide.

    Efficiency VS Point Cost VS Ease Of Use - Your best bets:

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    2) 8 man Devastator squad - 4 missile launchers

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  3. #2
    LO Zealot Gojiratoho's Avatar
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    74 (x4)

    2 problems with the unphaseable tactic.

    1) If you choose to not use the special rule of warping in reserved Necron units via the Gate on the Monolith, they would come in normally on turn 2+ with the respective dice roll.

    2) If you choose to use the Necron special rule and warp in reserved Necron units via a Gate from a Monolith, and there are no Monoliths in play, then all units in reserve are automatically lost. If you start the game with no Monolith in play, your reserved Necrons are lost and you would loose 30% of your PO number with your list. This is from the Necron FAQ, last bulletted paragraph right hand coloumn "Necron Warriors in Reserve...."
    Gyauayuayuayua! Ja! Ve vill crush da little girly men in deir little girl men awrmor! Ve vill see owur enemies driven befowur us, und hear da lahmentaytions of deir wemen. Und from owur home planet, de stayte uf Califowurnia, ve vill lawunch owur mighty offensive. Even if you kill us, ve'll be bach!! Gyauayauyauyauyau!

    -Arnoldunit Schwarzenecronegger; when questioned about the impending doom he would rain down upon the heads of his doomed enemies.

  4. #3
    LO Zealot Chaosbrynn's Avatar
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    71 (x4)

    Ok, once again, it does not say you need to have a monolith to use the special reserves rule, even in the faq. Its the reverse, that if they use the special rules, the only way they can be brought in is by a monolith. Secondlly, it states that they are destroyed if "all available monoliths" are destroyed. What if there never were any? Thirdlly if reserves are no alloud by the scenario and I use the warriors special rules to put them in reserve then they MUST be brought in by a monolith. No mono means they just sit there. technically. as there was never an available monolith to be destroyed.

    In any case, you answered my question. With the semi-clarification of the FAQ this is definatelly rules lawering.

    TY
    Mentor of Space Marine Commanders far and wide.

    Efficiency VS Point Cost VS Ease Of Use - Your best bets:

    1) Chaplain led Assault squad - 2 plasma pistols, powerfisted sergeant

    2) 8 man Devastator squad - 4 missile launchers

    3) Land Speeder Tornado - HB + AC

  5. #4
    LO Zealot Gojiratoho's Avatar
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    74 (x4)

    This is in the FAQ, not the rulebook or codex. You can find all of the army FAQs Here
    Gyauayuayuayua! Ja! Ve vill crush da little girly men in deir little girl men awrmor! Ve vill see owur enemies driven befowur us, und hear da lahmentaytions of deir wemen. Und from owur home planet, de stayte uf Califowurnia, ve vill lawunch owur mighty offensive. Even if you kill us, ve'll be bach!! Gyauayauyauyauyau!

    -Arnoldunit Schwarzenecronegger; when questioned about the impending doom he would rain down upon the heads of his doomed enemies.

  6. #5
    LO Zealot Chaosbrynn's Avatar
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    71 (x4)

    As I said, it does not say this in the faq either.
    Mentor of Space Marine Commanders far and wide.

    Efficiency VS Point Cost VS Ease Of Use - Your best bets:

    1) Chaplain led Assault squad - 2 plasma pistols, powerfisted sergeant

    2) 8 man Devastator squad - 4 missile launchers

    3) Land Speeder Tornado - HB + AC

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    I would ask someone from GW if it's legal, and if it is, then use it in a tournament. If the players complain, they lose points from sportsmanship.

    There is the problem that GW doesn't like loop holes, so they'll probably make it illegal.
    Faith be my shield and determination my sword.
    May the Emperor's wisdom ever guide us.

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    Altough this tactic were legal the army is weak. Withyour 'special tactic' you lose 180 pts in a game directly without the enemy must fire a bolter..

    An the rest of the army ..... i don´t see that it works,

    can you explain your strategy?

  9. #8
    LO Zealot Gojiratoho's Avatar
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    74 (x4)

    Originally posted by Chaosbrynn@Jan 20 2005, 143
    As I said, it does not say this in the faq either.
    [snapback]307856[/snapback]
    If you use the Necron special rule of warping in via the Monolith, they can only enter play if there is a Monolith left in play, otherwise they are destroyed as per the first page of the FAQ, lower right paragraph. If you have no Monolith, the Warriors have no way of entering play and would be destroyed.

    I personally don't think the rules allow you to put Necrons in reserve per their special rule and let them sit there with no Monolith.

    I also don't think any opponent would allow you to do this.


    Brynn's tactic is to take just enough Necron units (those that count towards Phase Out) that the actual PO number is less than 10. Then, by using the Necron rule of being held in reserve and porting in through the Monolith, hold a 10 man squad in reserve, out of play. If no Monolith is taken, said 10 man squad can't come into play and the attacker can never reach the PO number. While a very good idea, I just don't see the rules even remotly supporting it.
    Gyauayuayuayua! Ja! Ve vill crush da little girly men in deir little girl men awrmor! Ve vill see owur enemies driven befowur us, und hear da lahmentaytions of deir wemen. Und from owur home planet, de stayte uf Califowurnia, ve vill lawunch owur mighty offensive. Even if you kill us, ve'll be bach!! Gyauayauyauyauyau!

    -Arnoldunit Schwarzenecronegger; when questioned about the impending doom he would rain down upon the heads of his doomed enemies.

  10. #9
    LO Zealot Chaosbrynn's Avatar
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    71 (x4)

    The army itself doesnt matter. I chose that one as when I figured this out I was trying to fit NB and pariahs in.

    The point VMGF is that you cant ignore the non-necron units anymore and go for phase out. Hear that, no pahse out. You have to kill the nightbringer, you have to take on the pariahs. So the famous anti-necron startegy of "ignore the...." wont work here. So instead of my oponent needing to kill 75% of just my necrons (in this case 20 warriors) he must go through the entire list.

    Dark Angel Master, I wont be using this in a tourny. First off, I am a powergamer, and this army is no good for powergaming. Secondlly, people who run tournies dont know the rules any more then I do. I know this in point becuase I am a judge at my local store.

    And Gojiratoho, you have it mixed up still. The line reads:

    "if they are using this rule and ALL AVAILABLE MONOLITHS ARE DESTROYED....."

    1. there were never any liths to begin with.
    2. no monoliths have been destroyed.

    The particular line (and effect) that kills the warriors in reserve is the available monolith being destroyed. Since this is the only condition, if it is not met they remain alive untill the end of the battle.

    Personally I dont think the rules were DEVISED to allow you to do this. But as they are, you can.
    Mentor of Space Marine Commanders far and wide.

    Efficiency VS Point Cost VS Ease Of Use - Your best bets:

    1) Chaplain led Assault squad - 2 plasma pistols, powerfisted sergeant

    2) 8 man Devastator squad - 4 missile launchers

    3) Land Speeder Tornado - HB + AC

  11. #10
    LO Zealot Gojiratoho's Avatar
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    74 (x4)

    Originally posted by Chaosbrynn@Jan 20 2005, 16:15

    And Gojiratoho, you have it mixed up still. The line reads:

    "if they are using this rule and ALL AVAILABLE MONOLITHS ARE DESTROYED....."

    1. there were never any liths to begin with.
    2. no monoliths have been destroyed.

    The particular line (and effect) that kills the warriors in reserve is the available monolith being destroyed. Since this is the only condition, if it is not met they remain alive untill the end of the battle.

    [snapback]308000[/snapback]
    Before this goes any furhter, I just want to say that I really think that this is an interesting loophole you'd found Brynn. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate.

    As far as the FAQ goes, Necrons using their special reserve rule to come into play must do so from a Monolith. If all available Monoliths are destroyed, then the units in reserve are subsequently destroyed, because they have no way of teleporting in. If there are no Monoliths in play to begin with, I'd argue that the same would hold true. Any units held in reserve that require a Monolith to come into play would be destroyed, as there are no Monoliths available for them to come in, on the first turn.
    Gyauayuayuayua! Ja! Ve vill crush da little girly men in deir little girl men awrmor! Ve vill see owur enemies driven befowur us, und hear da lahmentaytions of deir wemen. Und from owur home planet, de stayte uf Califowurnia, ve vill lawunch owur mighty offensive. Even if you kill us, ve'll be bach!! Gyauayauyauyauyau!

    -Arnoldunit Schwarzenecronegger; when questioned about the impending doom he would rain down upon the heads of his doomed enemies.

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